Slim keeps command of XV Corps

(this is a scenario i've only just this minuite come up with, having read about the war in Burma and General William Slim on wiki, there may very well be inconsistancies and things i overlook/do wrong.

In OTL William Slim was given command of XV Corps (i think) in Burma during the Japanese invasion, unable to do much he extracted the majority of his forces out of the hands of the Japanese and led them on the long retreat back into India, In eastern India he trained XV corps and eastern army for combat against the japanese throughout 1942, placing emphasis on inter service co-operation, supply by air , defensive boxes etc.

then at the end of 1942, his superior General Irwin took over XV Corps and disregarded all Slims new training and ideas and ordered a traditional straight attack- the Arakan offensive was a disaster causing heavy allied casulties. Irwin handed XV corps back to Slim who once again brought them back out from disaster- after trying to blame Slim, Irwin was dismissed and Slim placed in charge.

my POD is that Slim never loses command of XV corps to begin with. His new training is also kept.

May 1942

After the allied disaster thoughout South East Asia, cultiminating in the retreat through Burma- William Slim retrains the growing Eastern Army to allow them to defeat the Japanese- he ensures inter service co-operation. resupply by air- getting rid of the need for long supply lines though extremely difficult terrain and teaching new fighting tactics.

As 1942 wears on, General Irwin comes down with maleria- he is shipped back to Britain to recover- the powers that be decide to let Slim keep control of XV Corps and Eastern Army- Morale improves throughout the force as the new training takes hold and Slim reasures them that their earlier humaliations will be avenged.

On December 21st 1942 with the Axis on the run everywhere except Burma it seems, Slim launches his counter offensive down the Arakan penninsula, at the same time the Chinese and Stillwell along with a new British/Indian group called the Chindits launch a distraction offensive in Northern Burma.

When the Arakan forces run into Japanese troops, they form into defensive boxes and are resupplied by air, albiet with difficulty as RAF has only just about reached air parity with the Japanese in the area. Slim has also trained his men to be mobile of the road so they are better then before at handling the jungle.

As the air transport situation improves with grudgingly increased air support from other theatres incl US transport aircraft. the situation on the ground rapidly improves by Febuary the Eastern Army is advancing down the Arakan although the Japanese resist stubbornly.

Is this at all realistic- i found the possible POD a couple of hours ago on Wikipedia. I read the related articles but find it difficult remebering everything, so i'm going slower then i wanted.

maybe later i'll do more research and rewrite it.

wow no one?

ah well i like the POD, some more research and a better written TL is in order.

birdie said:

wow no one?

ah well i like the POD, some more research and a better written TL is in order.

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Birdie

Interesting. I knew vaguely about Slim's work in Burma, both in the initial retreat and then the 44/45 battles to defeat the Japanese and liberate Burma. Didn't realise about him losing command for a while and definitely sounds like a missed opportunity.

Would definitely like to know more about it and where you think it might led to. If we could drive the Japs from Burma earlier it could have a big effect in terms of reopening the Burma road, which would enable supplied to the Chinese and the US bomber forces in China much more easily than flying over the hump. Also it might mean a chance to either attack into Thailand or liberate Malaya before the formal surrender.

Steve

stevep said:

Birdie

Interesting. I knew vaguely about Slim's work in Burma, both in the initial retreat and then the 44/45 battles to defeat the Japanese and liberate Burma. Didn't realise about him losing command for a while and definitely sounds like a missed opportunity.

Would definitely like to know more about it and where you think it might led to. If we could drive the Japs from Burma earlier it could have a big effect in terms of reopening the Burma road, which would enable supplied to the Chinese and the US bomber forces in China much more easily than flying over the hump. Also it might mean a chance to either attack into Thailand or liberate Malaya before the formal surrender.

Steve

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yes well i only found the POD by accident in wikipedia- thats what i'm trying to go for- the battle to retake Burma, but a year earlier. and then possible British Commonwealth offensives into Malaya and Thailand.

I didnt think about the Burma road too much- another angle i should look at.

I'm wondering how different this 1943 campaign in Burma will be from its later OTL version. In OTL there were plans for amphibous landings on the Arakan in support of later offensives as well as to retake the Andaman islands- cancelled due to need for landing craft elsewhere, I'm wondering whether these will take place maybe before the Salerno landings. also wondering what will happen in North Burma and whether the Chindits will be used.

birdie, Uncle Bill as his troops called him was by far the best general we brits had in WWII, and if you get the chance try to read his memoirs, the man actually managed to get on with old Vinegar Joe. So do a little more research and go for it, think of what the post war world would be like if French Indo-China is liberated by the British driving out the Japanese.

Ramp-Rat said:

birdie, Uncle Bill as his troops called him was by far the best general we brits had in WWII, and if you get the chance try to read his memoirs, the man actually managed to get on with old Vinegar Joe. So do a little more research and go for it, think of what the post war world would be like if French Indo-China is liberated by the British driving out the Japanese.

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yeah heard that he got on well with Stinwell(is that right/) who in general had little respect for the British or Chinese. He was the greatest British general at the very least in WWII- just that its been overshadowed by the campaigns in the Med and Europe.

In OTL Britain briefly occupied French Indo-China after Japans surrender- the plan was to give it back- which they did so i'm not sure whether they would have any different plans, maybe hand it to Free France if they liberate it before or during D-Day.

i've just remembered that when they were planning a counter attack in 1942, they had ideas of invading Thailand and trying to bring into the Empire/Commonwealth- dunno how that would go down.

maybe an earlier British Pacific Fleet- its 1943 so the U-boat menace will soon be defeated, i think the RN could send some of the larger carriers and other units like it did in late 1944 OTL.

how far does anyone think the British Empire can get in SE Asia before the war ends.

Bridie when the British occupied Indo-China the war had ended and they used Japanese solders to help police the streets as they were short of troops. This time they will have fought for it so establishing control bit by bit.

One nit-pick, what British Pacific Fleet, you mean the Far East Fleet, look at a map, the Pacific is a long way away, the big bit of water is the South China Sea.

Ramp-Rat said:

Bridie when the British occupied Indo-China the war had ended and they used Japanese solders to help police the streets as they were short of troops. This time they will have fought for it so establishing control bit by bit.

One nit-pick, what British Pacific Fleet, you mean the Far East Fleet, look at a map, the Pacific is a long way away, the big bit of water is the South China Sea.

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good point on Indo-China though I'm not sure what we'd end up doing, we may set up temporary military governments as we advance, howwver we'd probably eventually hand it back to the French, or Free French if France has'nt been liberated yet.

I kinda blurred the lines with the Pacific Fleet bit. the British Pacific Fleet was created from units of the British Eastern Fleet and arrivals from the Home Fleet in late 1944. despite being called the British Pacific Fleet it conducted strikes against Japanese bases and refineries in Indonesia and its home base was Sydney. it then joined the US in the Okiniowa(sic) campaign and conducted strikes and shelling of the Japanese homeland.

In TTL the Eastern Fleet could be enlarged if real devlopments take place in Burma, maybe the IJN moves against the British in the Indian Ocean in 1943 and we actually see a battle between the UK/Commonwealth and the Japanese at sea in 1943! could take place of one if the battles with the USN. had FAA improved by 1943?

Eastern Fleet could in early 1944 support a possible invasion of Malaya or Indonesia (if any of this is possible) and then maybe move into the South China Sea. actuall dunno whether a specific Pacific Fleet would be formed earlier (they'll be quite busy in SE Asia) or at all as they may have been formed in TTL to boost British prestige in Asia which in TTL may have improved if UK retakes more then it did in OTL, even better if RN avenges its earlier humilation.

any one got any ideas what kind of planes the Fleet Air Arm had in 1943.

i'm thinking maybe after the earlier reconquest of Burma, the British decide on an amphibous operation to retake the Andaman islands, as they wanted to in OTL which could lead to a naval battle between the IJN and a recently increased British Eastern Fleet in late 1943 or early 1944. thats assuming they could send more naval reinforcements at that time.