WI: Jackson really forced to move production of The Hobbit to Eastern Europe

Petike · Dec 21, 2013

Just a thought I had after recently coming home from the cinema after seeing the second Hobbit film.

What would happen if things escalated back in 2010 and didn't seem to get better, forcing PJ to really move the production to Europe ?

How much of a delay would it be ? What country or places would they choose to shoot in instead of New Zealand ? (Lithuania ? Russia ? Or somewhere more central, like Czechia or Romania ?) Could pre-production be handled as reasonably well as in NZ ? How would the change of location affect the hiring of local talent for extras ? What concessions would Wingnut Films and co. have to make during shooting (especially location shoots) ?

P.S. Please, no smartass responses in the vein of "oh, but they'd surely shoot in NZ no matter what". This isn't meant to be a plausibility check. Let's just entertain the thought that the POD was full-blown and production had to leave NZ for somewhere else.

kung Zog · Dec 21, 2013

Czech Republic and Romania do have the mountains ready, especially Romania.

Herzen's love-child · Dec 21, 2013

The Carpathians have some lovely vistas suitable for the haunts of the Necromancer.
Really, much of Eastern Europe is still yet to be discovered by big Western production companies and their location scouts.

Petike · Dec 21, 2013

kung Zog said:
Czech Republic and Romania do have the mountains ready, especially Romania.

Us too.

But the Czechs have larger and more readily available studio space, including backlots. IIRC, Romania and Hungary are also pretty good in this regard.

Hm, the biggest problem would probably be finding all of the needed types of exteriors in several different countries. Furthermore, a lot of Eastern Europe is not as pristine and semi-primeval as New Zealand is, which could affect the quality of the look of the film.

Herzen's love-child said:
The Carpathians have some lovely vistas suitable for the haunts of the Necromancer.

I'd be for shooting bits and pieces of Erebor, Dale and Misty Mountains scenery in Slovakia and Romania (and maybe even parts of Ukraine, some of their Carpathians are also very beautiful). Some of the eerier-looking hills and mountains could be filmed in Czechia and parts of Poland. Most of Rhovanion, including bits of Mirkwood, could be probably filmed fairly well in Lithuania or somewhere similar in the Baltics. Speaking of the Baltics, they might provide a good lake for the scenes set in Esgaroth. An eerier castle ruin somewhere in Czechia or high in the Carpathians could be mocked up well to stand in for wider shots of Dol Guldur.

Herzen's love-child said:
Really, much of Eastern Europe is still yet to be discovered by big Western production companies and their location scouts.

Yes. Though they've been making significant headways during the last 15 or so years, so it's not like it's an entirely undiscovered region for foreign film-making.

Herzen's love-child · Dec 21, 2013

Petike said:
Us too. But the Czechs have larger and more readily available studio space, including backlots. .

Plus, the best beer in the world. That's got to be a draw....

Herzen's love-child · Dec 21, 2013

Petike said:
Yes. Though they've been making significant headways during the last 15 or so years, so it's not like it's an entirely undiscovered region for foreign film-making.

Thinking of parts of Bulgaria, Ukraine outside of Kiev, and even corners of Slovakia that I've been to and have never seen in a movie by companies outside of the region. But, yes, headway is being made. The world becomes smaller with each passing day.

On, to the next Cine-undiscovered lands ---- Central Asia!

Petike · Dec 21, 2013

Herzen's love-child said:
On, to the next Cine-undiscovered lands ---- Central Asia!

Good point.

And speaking of central Asia, it would look pretty good in a potential Harad-themed spinoff.

Colin · Dec 21, 2013

Would the Ukraine count as Eastern Europe? (I know that's a kind of hot question right now). I am sure you could get a lot of forest locations and some mountains as well.

Petike · Dec 21, 2013

Colin said:
Would the Ukraine count as Eastern Europe? (I know that's a kind of hot question right now). I am sure you could get a lot of forest locations and some mountains as well.

Erm, yes. Ukraine is traditionally a big chunk of eastern Europe, if you slice Europe up into fairly equally proportionate regions. I'm sure Ukraine could be used, particularly the Carpathians in the west and some of the more northernly lowlands and low hills in the northern half of the country. Not sure about how big Ukrainian studios are, but if there are a few big ones, Ukraine might also work for interior shooting. But I think a lot of filmmakers still prefer Romania in terms of low prices and good infrastructure. Ukraine hasn't been used in that regard all that much by international productions though it could probably be as good as Romania. Might be that there are currently some reliability issues or something. Who knows.

Petike · Dec 21, 2013

Oh, and since we're also counting central European countries, one country we forgot to mention would be Poland. If there are no appropriate lakes available in the Baltic states, PJ and co. could still attempt to build Esgaroth somewhere in the Mazovia region, with its lakes. (Or create an Esgaroth backlot set and then digitally insert it into shots of Mazovian lakes.) As for Erebor, the Misty Mountains, etc. - again, you have the Polish side of the Tatras, with a lot of nice vistas.

Incognito · Dec 21, 2013

I wonder if the Museum of National Folk Architecture and Rural Life in Lviv, Ukraine could be passed off as Esgaroth? The museum is part of a park and contains 124 traditional peasant houses and wooden structures from all over Ukraine. No lake though, but perhaps the shots with the lake can be filmed at a different locations while the shots of the city can be filmed at the museum. Not sure if it would be more or less expensive than building a set from scratch. Some photos from the museum:

Herzen's love-child · Dec 21, 2013

CGI the above onto a lake and you're done.

Mike Stearns · Dec 21, 2013

Incognito said:
I wonder if the Museum of National Folk Architecture and Rural Life in Lviv, Ukraine could be passed off as Esgaroth? The museum is part of a park and contains 124 traditional peasant houses and wooden structures from all over Ukraine. No lake though, but perhaps the shots with the lake can be filmed at a different locations while the shots of the city can be filmed at the museum. Not sure if it would be more or less expensive than building a set from scratch. Some photos from the museum:

That could easily be passed off as the Shire. Very Hobbit-like in some ways.

katchen · Dec 22, 2013

I think that the Urals, particularly farther north around Serov and Nizhny Tagil are grossly underrated as film locations. They could be the Misty Mountains. The Pechora River is spectacular. Remote, but as wide and carrying as great a volume as the Columbia River. I'm sure that Long Lake coud be set somewhere in Karelia. With the Desolation of Smaug perhaps up in the Kola Tundra south of Murmansk.
Siberia has some spectacular locations like the Altai, but I think they are over budget. The Russian Taiga does resemble the book's description of Mirkwood. Though if they went to Siberia, they could use a Mongolian Dzong fortress to double as Dol Guldur and maybe save some money with the help of a Chinese film company.

Herzen's love-child · Dec 22, 2013

katchen said:
I think that the Urals, particularly farther north around Serov and Nizhny Tagil are grossly underrated as film locations. They could be the Misty Mountains. The Pechora River is spectacular. Remote, but as wide and carrying as great a volume as the Columbia River. I'm sure that Long Lake coud be set somewhere in Karelia. With the Desolation of Smaug perhaps up in the Kola Tundra south of Murmansk.
Siberia has some spectacular locations like the Altai, but I think they are over budget. The Russian Taiga does resemble the book's description of Mirkwood. Though if they went to Siberia, they could use a Mongolian Dzong fortress to double as Dol Guldur and maybe save some money with the help of a Chinese film company.

The Altai are stunning. A part of the world I'll certainly visit again. It would indeed be a massive undertaking to do a major film production in the heart of Central Asia.

Korelia must be saved for a big film version of the Finnish national epic, The Kalevala, one of the inspirations for Tolkien's writings.

The epic is set in Korelia, if one doesn't already know.

kung Zog · Dec 22, 2013

Herzen's love-child said:
The Altai are stunning. A part of the world I'll certainly visit again. It would indeed be a massive undertaking to do a major film production in the heart of Central Asia.

Korelia must be saved for a big film version of the Finnish national epic, The Kalevala, one of the inspirations for Tolkien's writings. The epic is set in Korelia, if one doesn't already know.

I would really like to visit the Altai once...

Petike · Dec 22, 2013

Well, as for the local traditional architecture : Unless PJ and co. find something that really fits in with the Howe's and Lee's concepts and the rest of the team's expectations, I don't think they'll be using existing local architecture to any great extent. If anything, Esgaroth would have to be a composite shot of folk architecture from various regions, to not make it look too RL-like. So, I think they'll still mostly build their own sets in various backlots or 'on the green meadow', etc. Hobbit architecture (especially their typical smial-s) will still have to be mostly built from scratch, not to mention the fact that they'll have to find a good substitute location for shooting the Hobbiton scenes (a small lake or pond in a little valley, with a big tree near the centre of the village, etc.).

kung Zog said:
I would really like to visit the Altai once...

Oh, I myself would like to visit a lot of interesting mountains and places in Eurasia...

katchen said:
I think that the Urals, particularly farther north around Serov and Nizhny Tagil are grossly underrated as film locations. They could be the Misty Mountains. The Pechora River is spectacular. Remote, but as wide and carrying as great a volume as the Columbia River. I'm sure that Long Lake coud be set somewhere in Karelia. With the Desolation of Smaug perhaps up in the Kola Tundra south of Murmansk.

Yeah, the mid and higher parts of the Urals could be an interesting choice. And when in doubt, location shots from there could be bolstered by additional shots from the Caucasus (if one would need even taller looking mountains, especially for Erebor or some of the higher Misty Mountains peaks).

katchen said:
Siberia has some spectacular locations like the Altai, but I think they are over budget. The Russian Taiga does resemble the book's description of Mirkwood. Though if they went to Siberia, they could use a Mongolian Dzong fortress to double as Dol Guldur and maybe save some money with the help of a Chinese film company.

That I wholeheartedly agree with, but it is true that shooting in Siberia would drastically increase costs, especially if the location shoots were in very remote areas.