What if Sargon of Akkad lost against Uruk and never formed an empire?
- Thread starter Hattusas
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Some consequences:
-Ebla lasts longer and remains a center of autonomous (although Sumerian-influenced) Syrian culture.
-The idea of universal empire (where "universal" means "pan-Mesopotamian") had already a pre-Sargonic basis in the notion of a unitary, abstract concept of royalty for all of Sumer. However, it will crystallize far more slowly without Sargon.
-Sumerian high culture would probably remain even more prestigious than IOTL, esp. if a Sumerian important center stops the Akkadians. Akkadian language will eventually emerge, but in a different a slower way.
-It's damn hard to say what happens to the Sumerian not-really-city-states-anymore. Uruk (renewed) hegemony is likely but the Akkadian regions might be beyond its scope.
- Bottom line, the likeliest outcome is an anticipated structure of multiple regional powers with a somewhat distinct cultural identity like it is seen in the Middle Bronze Age. Tentatively, Subartu, Mari, Ebla, Qatna, some center in the Khabur-Upper Euphrates, Kish/Akkad, Sumer, maybe Eshnunna, Elam, possibly Byblos and Hasor.
- The Amorrean and Gutian invasions will probably happen regardless and act as a factor of fragmentation. However, Sumer might actually be better placed to weather that storm.
-Sumer will be, in the short term at least, less cohesive than it was under the OTL's Ur Empire (I think unification is still likely), but dominance of Middle Mesopotamia is delayed.
- As the Amorreans find an easier time in the Fertile Crsecent, they might not put such a pressure on Egypt. The Middle Kingdom has an easier life.
- Assyria would probably remain Khurrian for time being.
-Ebla lasts longer and remains a center of autonomous (although Sumerian-influenced) Syrian culture.
-The idea of universal empire (where "universal" means "pan-Mesopotamian") had already a pre-Sargonic basis in the notion of a unitary, abstract concept of royalty for all of Sumer. However, it will crystallize far more slowly without Sargon.
-Sumerian high culture would probably remain even more prestigious than IOTL, esp. if a Sumerian important center stops the Akkadians. Akkadian language will eventually emerge, but in a different a slower way.
-It's damn hard to say what happens to the Sumerian not-really-city-states-anymore. Uruk (renewed) hegemony is likely but the Akkadian regions might be beyond its scope.
- Bottom line, the likeliest outcome is an anticipated structure of multiple regional powers with a somewhat distinct cultural identity like it is seen in the Middle Bronze Age. Tentatively, Subartu, Mari, Ebla, Qatna, some center in the Khabur-Upper Euphrates, Kish/Akkad, Sumer, maybe Eshnunna, Elam, possibly Byblos and Hasor.
- The Amorrean and Gutian invasions will probably happen regardless and act as a factor of fragmentation. However, Sumer might actually be better placed to weather that storm.
-Sumer will be, in the short term at least, less cohesive than it was under the OTL's Ur Empire (I think unification is still likely), but dominance of Middle Mesopotamia is delayed.
- As the Amorreans find an easier time in the Fertile Crsecent, they might not put such a pressure on Egypt. The Middle Kingdom has an easier life.
- Assyria would probably remain Khurrian for time being.
Most importantly, it would have some severe repercussions in the Byzantine-Sassanid wars, possibly relegating Islam to a regional religion.
Out of Topic: a fellow student of physics enjoyed writing some short sci-fi stories. One of them involved Sargon and Lugalzagesi.
In his story, Lugalzagesi was an exiled alien from a wartorn planet who decided to keep the Earth from following that course... by attempting to stablish a global empire as fast as possible. When challenged by Sargon, he met him face to face, confident on the protection provided by the only piece of high tech he had managed to take with himself on his flight, some kind of energy field. Unfortunately for Lugalzagesi, Sargon had been contacted by a "goddess" (in reality an agent from Lugalzagesi's planet) who had given him a "relic" to disrupt his energy field and killed him.
I thought it was pretty cool.
Ok, sorry for the interruption
In his story, Lugalzagesi was an exiled alien from a wartorn planet who decided to keep the Earth from following that course... by attempting to stablish a global empire as fast as possible. When challenged by Sargon, he met him face to face, confident on the protection provided by the only piece of high tech he had managed to take with himself on his flight, some kind of energy field. Unfortunately for Lugalzagesi, Sargon had been contacted by a "goddess" (in reality an agent from Lugalzagesi's planet) who had given him a "relic" to disrupt his energy field and killed him.
I thought it was pretty cool.
Ok, sorry for the interruption
What? With a POD in the 23rd century BC both Rome and Sassanid Persia would be totally butterflied away.
What? Have you ever heard about butterflies? That kind of POD you get leastly totally different Judaism, if it is even exist. And it would mean that no Christianity nor Islam. And Persia and Rome butterflies away.
After these past posts, I just could not help posting this joke:
With a weaker Akkadian presence, the Guti might form a more lasting and constructive relation with Sumer, and this could be what all those Swedish-wanks on the forum needs - a strong Gothic kingdom in Iraq that might aid Ostrogoths and Visigoths against Justinian in the 500s, and later be the decisive factor in the Great Northern War of the 1700s, when German Swabians, Sumerian Goths and Finns (Suomi), Crimean Goths, Italian Ostrogoths and Spanish Suevi and Visigoths all appear at the battlefield of Poltava to help their northern kin against the Russian conqueror of all eastern Finns, and the real Swedish Empire begins.(Swedes are Goths and Suevi and Finns.)
Or more seriously, perhaps the Sumerian military victory would have us see clearer on the issue of a relationship between Sumerian and Uralic languages.
With a weaker Akkadian presence, the Guti might form a more lasting and constructive relation with Sumer, and this could be what all those Swedish-wanks on the forum needs - a strong Gothic kingdom in Iraq that might aid Ostrogoths and Visigoths against Justinian in the 500s, and later be the decisive factor in the Great Northern War of the 1700s, when German Swabians, Sumerian Goths and Finns (Suomi), Crimean Goths, Italian Ostrogoths and Spanish Suevi and Visigoths all appear at the battlefield of Poltava to help their northern kin against the Russian conqueror of all eastern Finns, and the real Swedish Empire begins.(Swedes are Goths and Suevi and Finns.)
Or more seriously, perhaps the Sumerian military victory would have us see clearer on the issue of a relationship between Sumerian and Uralic languages.
I suppose, then, that the question should be what impact this would have on the Sassanid-Gothic wars?
This. Timeline. Will. Not. Have. Any. Goths. (Sassanids are even more unlikely.)
I could ju-u-ust barely see a way for the Huns to still be around (and even that's a huge stretch), and discounting weather changes, I suspect the *Inuit would reach *Greenland roughly on OTL schedule because they're so ridiculously far away. But other than that, it's going to be entirely unrecognizable (as in, from some pretty early point on, a theoretical TL writer might just as well make most of the stuff up).
It does sometimes amuse me that people who speculate about x event years/centuries after the PoD are still accepting the notion of butterflies - just on a very restricted basis.
teg
This could result in a greater Egypt expansion. With an easier life, Egypt could beat the sea peoples without too much cost, if the invasion happens as OTL.
That's a millennium away.
Although the likely reason for the invasions might have been a climate change, that won't be obviously butterflied away, there is no guarantee the routes will be similar.
OTOH, the earlier Hyksos invasion may not happen, throwing the whole Egyptian New Kingdom out of existence. Egypt MIGHT have an easier life through the Bronze Age, but won't necessarily expand into the Levant with the same pervasiveness as OTL.
I was about to say I think Dominus was joking, but he beat me to it.
Anyway, I agree with Falecius for the most part. The Amorians and Gutians are still gonna stir stuff up and make things interesting.
Anyway, I agree with Falecius for the most part. The Amorians and Gutians are still gonna stir stuff up and make things interesting.
