Question: Belgian Industrial Revolution

mlp · Nov 9, 2013

Belgium is the second country, after Great Britain, to have industrialized. Maybe it had the geographical reason to do so, with the coal and all. But what was the reason for its industrialization? For what I know, Belgium isn't like the Netherlands or Britain and did not have a merchant-based society. What was its reason and incentive to increase production and expand the market?
Experts on the field of either Belgian history, industrialization or both are all welcome to post on this thread. Assertions and speculations are also welcome.

wietze · Nov 9, 2013

i know that a briton named John Cockerill was of great influence in laying the foundations for it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cockerill_(industrialist)

mlp · Nov 10, 2013

wietze said:
i know that a briton named John Cockerill was of great influence in laying the foundations for it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cockerill_(industrialist)

so I read the wiki article. Seems the force that moved Belgium towards industrialisation, more or less, is...the wool industry?

Simon · Nov 10, 2013

Makes sense, a fair amount of the Midlands in the UK early industrialisation was to do with automating the textile industry. IIRC from there the region moved into the heavy industry business thanks to the requisite local supplies of coal and other natural resources necessary.

mlp · Nov 10, 2013

Simon said:
Makes sense, a fair amount of the Midlands in the UK early industrialisation was to do with automating the textile industry. IIRC from there the region moved into the heavy industry business thanks to the requisite local supplies of coal and other natural resources necessary.

So why did Belgium want more textiles? for trade? But I thought marine trade was dominated by the British and Dutch by this time...
is it the increase in consumption within the domestic market?

wietze · Nov 10, 2013

the flemish textiles industry has been around for a very long time, so expanding a traditional business makes sense.

As you probably read the start of the industrialisation was started before belgium went independent ( and stimulated by King willem I), and it was logical that a man like cockerill went to Luik because that already had considerable industry (the arms industry) and was near the collieries.

And yes the dutch and british dominated the the maritime trade, but what does trade do? buy and sell it somewhere else with a profit. the maritime trade was a intermediate.
So essentially they wanted to generate more money by exporting more

Xgentis · Nov 10, 2013

wietze said:
the flemish textiles industry has been around for a very long time, so expanding a traditional business makes sense.

As you probably read the start of the industrialisation was started before belgium went independent ( and stimulated by King willem I), and it was logical that a man like cockerill went to Luik because that already had considerable industry (the arms industry) and was near the collieries.

And yes the dutch and british dominated the the maritime trade, but what does trade do? buy and sell it somewhere else with a profit. the maritime trade was a intermediate.
So essentially they wanted to generate more money by exporting more

Luik? You mean Liége right?

mlp · Nov 10, 2013

Xgentis said:
Luik? You mean Liége right?

maybe a difference in spelling...

Vingilótë · Nov 10, 2013

zeppelinair said:
maybe a difference in spelling...

Language difference: Luik is the Dutch name (wietze is Dutch IIRC), Liége is the French name.

pompejus · Nov 11, 2013

Zmflavius said:
Language difference: Luik is the Dutch name (wietze is Dutch IIRC), Liége is the French name.

I am surprised Xgentis didn't know that. I know most Walloons don't know much Dutch, but I though they would be familiar with the different spelling of place names. I know that in Wallonia they use the French spelling of places like Antwerp (Anvers, it took me ages before I realised that was Antwerp) and other Flemish cities on roadsigns, so I assume in Flanders they use the Flemish names for Walloon towns (Luik, Bergen, Bastenaken). I never checked actualy. I think I will next time I am in Belgium.

Edit I just checked google streetview and near Tongeren in Flanders they do use "Luik" on streetsigns for Liege.

Xgentis · Nov 11, 2013

pompejus said:
I am surprised Xgentis didn't know that. I know most Walloons don't know much Dutch, but I though they would be familiar with the different spelling of place names. I know that in Wallonia they use the French spelling of places like Antwerp (Anvers, it took me ages before I realised that was Antwerp) and other Flemish cities on roadsigns, so I assume in Flanders they use the Flemish names for Walloon towns (Luik, Bergen, Bastenaken). I never checked actualy. I think I will next time I am in Belgium.

Edit I just checked google streetview and near Tongeren in Flanders they do use "Luik" on streetsigns for Liege.

I do know but the flemish had a tendency to not like us using french name for flemish cities and even go as far as asking us to only use flemish name on streetisigns.

J. de Vos · Nov 11, 2013

Xgentis said:
I do know but the flemish had a tendency to not like us using french name for flemish cities and even go as far as asking us to only use flemish name on streetisigns.

Except Wietze is Dutch, not Flemish.

And you knew perfectly well what he meant. You were just being pedantic about him using the Dutch name instead of the French one.

Parma · Nov 11, 2013

As pointe in an earlier post. The circumstance for the start of the industrial revolution on the continent were quite good for Belgium or the Southern Netherlands.
First there were large merchnat cities in Flanders which had a bassis of textile industry. The entrepeneurs of this cities, Aalst, Ghent, etc., simply coppied the production methods of the British, initially supported by King William I and the colonial markets of this new, short lived, kingdom.
Almost the same happended with the heavy iron industry. Coal was mined for centuries around Mons and Liege. Metal and coal works, on a nearly industrial method was practiced by ceveral monastries around Mons, and Liege. Modern industrialisation was encouraged by King William I. Cockerill was a one of the first industrialist and protagist of William I.

mlp · Nov 14, 2013

Parma said:
As pointe in an earlier post. The circumstance for the start of the industrial revolution on the continent were quite good for Belgium or the Southern Netherlands.
First there were large merchnat cities in Flanders which had a bassis of textile industry. The entrepeneurs of this cities, Aalst, Ghent, etc., simply coppied the production methods of the British, initially supported by King William I and the colonial markets of this new, short lived, kingdom.
Almost the same happended with the heavy iron industry. Coal was mined for centuries around Mons and Liege. Metal and coal works, on a nearly industrial method was practiced by ceveral monastries around Mons, and Liege. Modern industrialisation was encouraged by King William I. Cockerill was a one of the first industrialist and protagist of William I.

were there such groups of merchant cities, then, in other parts of the world?

Simreeve · Nov 15, 2013

zeppelinair said:
were there such groups of merchant cities, then, in other parts of the world?

Northern Italy. To some extent the 'Imperial Cities, in Germany, although some of those never really recovered from the 30 Years War.

mlp · Nov 15, 2013

Simreeve said:
Northern Italy. To some extent the 'Imperial Cities, in Germany, although some of those never really recovered from the 30 Years War.

Seems there was something like that also in Japan.
Rice Broker
Dojima Rice Exchange
So that will be cities like Osaka and Edo.

mlp · Dec 9, 2013

Simreeve said:
Northern Italy. To some extent the 'Imperial Cities, in Germany, although some of those never really recovered from the 30 Years War.

so how would we possibly bring about an industrial revolution from there?
Do they have enough resources? An earlier reunification, perhaps?