Napoleon allies with Prussia

We already had "Napoleon eradicates Prussia"... but niw let's think about the opposite:

After having won the war of 1806/7 easily, Napoleon can see that the current Prussian king has a weak personality and can easily be pushed around. So he doesn't perceive Prussia as a danger and suggests Frederick Wilhelm III an alliance against Britain and Prussia. Let's assume that FW3 agrees, fearing the worst if he doesn't. Prussia only loses some minor territories (Cottbus to Saxony, its lands in Westphalia to Berg and Bayreuth to Bavaria), but keeps Hannover and everything else. It's smaller allies Braunschweig and electorate Hesse are dissolved. Prussia has to send troops against Spain, and later Russia. Napoleon's brother Jerome might go to Spain instead. The king never appoints competent people like Stein, Scharnhorst and others, but is surrounded by Yes-men. That's OK for Napoleon since it means Prussia won't become too dangerous.

Would Austria dare to fight against Napoleon in 1809 if Prussia in on Napoleon's side? If yes, Prussia might gain territories... maybe Silesia, or West Galicia - thus making Prussia half German, half Polish, turning it from a nation state into something like an A-H in the North. If Prussia fights on Napoleon's side against Russia (and this time, they could win), they might gain the Baltic provinces, changing it further into that direction. And if Austria doesn't cooperate with Napoleon (think about his political marriage), he could decide to make Bohemia independent and give it to Jerome, or Joseph if Jerome's in Spain.
 
Max Sinister said:
So he doesn't perceive Prussia as a danger and suggests Frederick Wilhelm III an alliance against Britain and Prussia.

Perhaps you mean an alliance against Britain and Russia? :D He may be a pushover, but perhaps not as much as to ally against himself!
 
I seem to recall that in 1806 Prussia demanded France hand over newly-annexed Hanover, France didn't and that led to the war that crippled Prussia. Maybe if France did hand over Hanover? That instantly makes Prussia an enemy of Britain and an ally of France by default?

I wonder if even this would be enough to make Austria-Hungary not fight France, A-H seems, after Britain, to be the most anti-Napoleonic nation in Europe!
 

WFHermans

Banned
Andrei and Jason: both yes.

Probably it all would have ended the same way after the failed invasion in Russia.
 
About the Hanover thing: Prussia hadn't fought in the war of 1805. Napoleon had conquered Hanover. So he suggested Prussia an exchange: Hanover against some minor Prussian lands. Prussia agreed. Then, Napoleon started to taunt Prussia, even offered Britain to take back Hanover, and Russia to take Prussian Poland, so Prussia had to fight. The Prussia were overconfident and even demanded Napoleon to retreat from South Germany and leave all of North Germany to Prussian hegemony. We know how it ended...
 

WFHermans

Banned
Prussia would have switched sides anyway and would have emerged from the 1815 even bigger than in our TL.
 
Max Sinister said:
About the Hanover thing: Prussia hadn't fought in the war of 1805. Napoleon had conquered Hanover. So he suggested Prussia an exchange: Hanover against some minor Prussian lands. Prussia agreed. Then, Napoleon started to taunt Prussia, even offered Britain to take back Hanover, and Russia to take Prussian Poland, so Prussia had to fight. The Prussia were overconfident and even demanded Napoleon to retreat from South Germany and leave all of North Germany to Prussian hegemony. We know how it ended...
and the funny thing is, that Napolean had not the tiniest right to give Hanover to anybody, as it was not his, or at least france, property. Britain would not have legitimized any of such deals.
 
Max Sinister said:
The king never appoints competent people like Stein, Scharnhorst and others, but is surrounded by Yes-men.
I don't think Frederick Wilhelm III would not appoint Scharnhorst and others - after all, Prussian ruler not listening to people showing a way to make the army stronger - not possible;)

Alayta said:
and the funny thing is, that Napolean had not the tiniest right to give Hanover to anybody, as it was not his, or at least france, property. Britain would not have legitimized any of such deals.
Like France or Prussia would have cared about British legitimization:rolleyes:

Also, Russia in 1807 would have taken offence in Prussia allying with France... hmm, interesting - probable war between Prussia allied with France against Russia, and after a won war, Prussia gets Lithuania.

Then in 1809 we have war between:

1. France, Prussia, Sweden and (perhaps) Turkey and
2. Russia and Austria

Wonder what that would bring?
 
Let's not forget that Britain was already fighting Napoleon, so add them.

I'd still say that Austria is kicked in the ass, loses maybe even more territory than IOTL, and Russia's at least thrown back. After that, it depends whether Napoleon is again crazy enough to fight Russia.
 

Keenir

Banned
Tizoc said:
Then in 1809 we have war between:

1. France, Prussia, Sweden and (perhaps) Turkey and
2. Russia and Austria

Wonder what that would bring?

just wondering...which side would Persia be on?

would they ally to kick some Ottoman butt, or would they ally to kick Russian butt?
 
Max Sinister said:
Would Austria dare to fight against Napoleon in 1809 if Prussia in on Napoleon's side? If yes, Prussia might gain territories... maybe Silesia, or West Galicia - ...
Silesia is already Prussian..
 
JHPier said:
Silesia is already Prussian..
I suppose the reference is to the tiny remnants of Silesia Austria managed to hold on to. Though I would say there's a reason Prussia never pushed for them- not worth it.

Now, West Galicia on the other hand... Since Prussia is a Napoleonic ally, this probably means no Grand Duchy of Warsaw, which could cause Saxony to be more anti-Napoleonic, so gains there as well?
 
Tizoc said:
Why should Prussia limit itself to gaining ONLY WEST Galicia from Austrian hands?:)
For some reason I was thinking that East Galicia would be in the hands of the Grand Duchy of Warsaw. After all, West Galicia would cut Austria off from East Galicia...

Though comparing Austrian rule to Prussian rule, Austria shouldn't lose it at all... In fact, they should be given Southern Prussia, and in return Prussia gains Saxony, West Pomerania, and the Mecklenburgs..
 
The Mecklenburgs were allied with Napoleon (member of the Rhine Confederation), and Western Pomerania was Swedish. And West Galicia is actually more in the North of East Galicia, and Austria wouldn't be cut off in that case.
 
Max Sinister said:
The Mecklenburgs were allied with Napoleon (member of the Rhine Confederation), and Western Pomerania was Swedish. And West Galicia is actually more in the North of East Galicia, and Austria wouldn't be cut off in that case.
Am I getting my Galicias confused again? Yes, I apparently am... sorry about htat.
 
Imajin said:
For some reason I was thinking that East Galicia would be in the hands of the Grand Duchy of Warsaw.
There is no Grand Duchy of Warsaw in this timeline, y'know...

Imajin said:
In fact, they should be given Southern Prussia
Eh, AFAIK Southern Prussia was a name given to lands gained by Prussia in the Third Partition of Poland...
 
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