Byzantines restart Olympic Games

  • Thread starter Deleted member 67076
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Deleted member 67076

So, I've been reading that Theodosius I shut down the Olympic games during his reign.

What if much later, after the fall of the west, the Byzantine Empire decides to restart up the Olympic games? Maybe some emperor like Justinian I or II, Basil, or Manuel Komnenos starts it up again (for whatever reason, to show off, raise money, distract the populous, doesn't matter) in Constantinople?

How would these new Olympic games go?

What events would happen? Would it be something like chariot racing or jousting? Would the nobles of Europe join in as well, or even the various steppe nomads or Islamic states?
 

Emperor Constantine

Soverihn said:
So, I've been reading that Theodosius I shut down the Olympic games during his reign.

What if much later, after the fall of the west, the Byzantine Empire decides to restart up the Olympic games? Maybe some emperor like Justinian I or II, Basil, or Manuel Komnenos starts it up again (for whatever reason, to show off, raise money, distract the populous, doesn't matter) in Constantinople?

How would these new Olympic games go?

What events would happen? Would it be something like chariot racing or jousting? Would the nobles of Europe join in as well, or even the various steppe nomads or Islamic states?
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Very interesting idea. I can't say I know much about the sports of the middle ages but I'd venture that there would at the very least be chariot racing. I'm not sure what sports/athletic games were dominant in Byzantium. Though I do wonder if we would actually see it being an international affair. After all when the Olympics were revived OTL the world was at relative peace. There hadn't been any large-scale wars for a while and though most nations had rivalry they would never go as far as to imprison athletes or diplomats. During the middle ages however, when wars would start at the drop of a hat over stupid things, I can't see the West sending representatives to Constantinople for international games. Nor can I see the Muslims permitting it, sense they were almost always in a perpetual war with Byzantium. But again very interesting idea and I hope someone more knowledgeable than myself comments.
 

Elfwine

Emperor Constantine said:
Very interesting idea. I can't say I know much about the sports of the middle ages but I'd venture that there would at the very least be chariot racing. I'm not sure what sports/athletic games were dominant in Byzantium.
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Me neither, but jousting would be seen as weird and foreign at best. Which is not to say it could at some point be introduced, but it would not be by the Byzantines.

During the middle ages however, when wars would start at the drop of a hat over stupid things, I can't see the West sending representatives to Constantinople for international games. Nor can I see the Muslims permitting it, sense they were almost always in a perpetual war with Byzantium. But again very interesting idea and I hope someone more knowledgeable than myself comments.
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I can see the Muslims permitting it, because while some Muslims were at war with the Empire, some were not (which Muslims fell in which group depending). There isn't a united "Muslimdom" that has one single united policy towards Byzantium.
 

Deleted member 67076

Elfwine said:
Me neither, but jousting would be seen as weird and foreign at best. Which is not to say it could at some point be introduced, but it would not be by the Byzantines.
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Wasn't Manuel Komnenos a big fan of jousting?
 

Evan

Emperor Constantine said:
Very interesting idea. I can't say I know much about the sports of the middle ages but I'd venture that there would at the very least be chariot racing. I'm not sure what sports/athletic games were dominant in Byzantium.
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The dominant sport was definitely chariot racing. Fans of the "Blue" and "Green" teams would regularly riot against each other in Constantinople, even influencing imperial politics at several times. In any Byzantine Olympics, that would be the headline sport.

Emperor Constantine said:
Though I do wonder if we would actually see it being an international affair. After all when the Olympics were revived OTL the world was at relative peace. There hadn't been any large-scale wars for a while and though most nations had rivalry they would never go as far as to imprison athletes or diplomats. During the middle ages however, when wars would start at the drop of a hat over stupid things, I can't see the West sending representatives to Constantinople for international games.
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Weren't there international jousts in the West in the Middle Ages? At least, there was a code of chivalry which permitted safe passage in a lot of circumstances. (Though it was violated - remember Richard III was imprisoned after being shipwrecked, in clear violation of the strongest safe-conduct clause.) Constantinople could proclaim that all competitors are to be accorded the same immunity as (say) victims of shipwreck. Then, it would depend on how much the competitors trust the Emperor to keep his word, but it would always be up to that.
 

bm79

As cool an idea as this is, I don't see how it happens. Theodosius shut down the Olympic Games, closed the Temple of Apollo at Delphi which housed the oracle, closed the philosophy schools in Athens, etc. and so on because they were pagan and remained focal points for keeping the old religion alive. The Games were not just a sporting event but the feast of Olympian Zeus and held on the grounds of his greatest temple. In a Constantinople where the most minor doctrinal differences can lead to days of rioting, the emperor who proposes the ressurection of pagan rites must possess either balls the size of coconuts or cottage cheese for brains...
 

Flubber

Banned
bm79 said:
As cool an idea as this is, I don't see how it happens. Theodosius shut down the Olympic Games, closed the Temple of Apollo at Delphi which housed the oracle, closed the philosophy schools in Athens, etc. and so on because they were pagan and remained focal points for keeping the old religion alive. The Games were not just a sporting event but the feast of Olympian Zeus and held on the grounds of his greatest temple.
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THIS.

When the idea of the Games was revived in the late 19th Century, there were still complaints about their original pagan nature.

The idea that an Eastern Roman Emperor would revive an event which has for centuries been the focal point of a pagan religion is ludicrous.
 
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Deleted member 67076

Flubber said:
THIS.

When the idea of the Games was revived in the late 19th Century, there were still complaints about their original pagan nature.

The idea that an Eastern Roman Emperor would revive an event which has for centuries been the focal point of a pagan religion is ludicrous.
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And there is absolutely no way to twist/change the pagan aspects to fit the state's needs?
 

Pachac

Why, though? There is no real way to eliminate the pagan rituals behind the Olympics, it's in the name. If they really wanted some sort of national sporting competition, they would make their own. Though that does beg the question; did Byzantine nobles and royalty have some sort of standardized pastime in the same way as jousting and hunting became in late medieval Europe?
 

Elfwine

ImmortalImpi said:
Why, though? There is no real way to eliminate the pagan rituals behind the Olympics, it's in the name. If they really wanted some sort of national sporting competition, they would make their own.
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This. Keeping it as "the Olympics in name only" might work long after it having explicitly pagan associations is only vaguely suspicious and most people will accept it merely as "classical Greece" with all the overly romanticized notions the West has of that, but it would mean far more in Byzantine times.
 

Flubber

Banned
Soverihn said:
And there is absolutely no way to twist/change the pagan aspects to fit the state's needs?
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There is no way.

You're looking at the issue from your 21st Century perspective and not from the 4th Century perspective of Theodosius.

Theodosius is imposing Nicene Orthodoxy as a means of social and political control. The Empire is suffering through another round of civil wars and the Goths have become a major threat. While Theodosius various' co-rulers have either fought and lost against him or conveniently died, he still faces plenty of opposition especially once he proclaims himself sole emperor of both the western and eastern halves of the empire. He needs to solidify his grip on the empire and a state religion is a good way to do that.

Accordingly, Theodosius began by enforcing Constantine's earlier decrees, upped the ante by removing removing non-Christians from government service, and finally struck at the foundations of pagan intellectual and social life by pulling down temples, shutting down schools, purging libraries, and forbidding both pagan practices and festivals.

The Olympics in 2013 are a sporting event, albeit one with nasty nationalist overtones, so you naturally assume that the Olympics has always been "just" a sporting event.

In the 4th Century, however, the Olympics were a religious festival, had been one for over a thousand years, and everyone knew they were a religious festival. Athletic competitions were part of the festival, but they weren't only part, the biggest part, or even the reason the festival was held.

Thinking that the ancient Olympics were held for the athletic competitions is akin to thinking that the Super Bowl is held for the tailgating. :rolleyes:
 

Deleted member 67076

Flubber said:
There is no way.

You're looking at the issue from your 21st Century perspective and not from the 4th Century perspective of Theodosius.

Theodosius is imposing Nicene Orthodoxy as a means of social and political control. The Empire is suffering through another round of civil wars and the Goths have become a major threat. While Theodosius various' co-rulers have either fought and lost against him or conveniently died, he still faces plenty of opposition especially once he proclaims himself sole emperor of both the western and eastern halves of the empire. He needs to solidify his grip on the empire and a state religion is a good way to do that.

Accordingly, Theodosius began by enforcing Constantine's earlier decrees, upped the ante by removing removing non-Christians from government service, and finally struck at the foundations of pagan intellectual and social life by pulling down temples, shutting down schools, purging libraries, and forbidding both pagan practices and festivals.

The Olympics in 2013 are a sporting event, albeit one with nasty nationalist overtones, so you naturally assume that the Olympics has always been "just" a sporting event.

In the 4th Century, however, the Olympics were a religious festival, had been one for over a thousand years, and everyone knew they were a religious festival. Athletic competitions were part of the festival, but they weren't only part, the biggest part, or even the reason the festival was held.

Thinking that the ancient Olympics were held for the athletic competitions is akin to thinking that the Super Bowl is held for the tailgating. :rolleyes:
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Did your parents ever teach you politeness?

In any case that rules out Theodosius. Now could the games be restarted as purely a sporting event hundreds of years later, at say the 1000s or the 1100s?
 
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