WI: Enterprise had season four quality, in season 1?

There's a widely-accepted consensus among critics and Trekkies and the fourth season of Enterprise (by then, Star Trek: Enterprise) was easily the best. So let's say that the show had that sort of quality in the first season. If you want a specific POD, let's hand wave Manny Coto into becoming show runner (or one of several) in the first season, meaning that we even get a lot of similar plot lines.

So, if such an event had taken place, how long do you see the show lasting? Could it have gotten more accolades for a genre series, ala Battlestar Galactica or Game of Thrones? And then what would be the effect on the Star Trek franchise going forward?
 
"Enterprise" was part of that whole millenial era vibe where prequels and remakes were dreadful, along with many sequels. And the dreadfulness was not always in being terrible. It was all too often in just being very bland and lifeless. These were the years of the Star Wars prequels, Tim Burton's Planet of the Apes, Superman Returns, etc. "Enterprise" partook in that.

The bigger question may be to figure out why that sort of quality issue existed. It may boil down to that the people at the helm didn't know what they were doing, didn't understand the vibe of the thing they were involved with, and got too caught up in CGI rather than focusing on story, landing in mediocrity. The problem with Enterprise was probably all of those things. It was also the fact that the people involved with the rebirth of Star Trek with TNG were all gone by then. Michael Pillar was no longer attached, nor Ira Behr, nor Ronald D. Moore, and so on. I can't remember all the names, but there was such a brain trust that was around for TNG which dissipated away as the franchise went on, and weren't replaced. By Enterprise, it was Berman and Braga. I think you could see the first problems with Star Trek: Voyager. Voyager wasn't bad, but it also wasn't good either. As things went on past DS9, Star Trek began to feel like Power Rangers. It was just a series of bland things that existed with a massive franchise no one was particularly enthusiastic about the current incarnations of. The shows, starting with Voyager, also suffered from uneveness; the characters did not have consistent characterization, and were constantly contradicting themselves.

The problem when it moved in prequel territory was that not only was it a problem of blandness and lousy characterization and lousy stories; it was also a problem of screwing up the canon. Enterprise should not have been as bad as it was, and it was as bad as it was for most of it's run due to incompetence. You have the problems I already mentioned. You also have the problem that it totally ignored the Original Series. The entire point of ENT was to go forward into TOS, to show how all these things came about, and to show these adventures in this rich era. Somehow, they found a way to botch that, and they also found a way to totally ignore the original series beyond some lip service they assumed meant something. The color scheme being based on TOS does not mean anything, because it was a group of people with a TNG mindset trying to look at something and pay homage to something it seems they didn't understand. Enterprise should have been about setting up how the Federation formed, and the Romulan wars, and the innovation of new technologies which would become commonplace in the later series', and showing and forshadowing all the things that would come about later, and doing the things we were told happened during the era of that show. Instead, it totally sidestepped that. In short, an episode named "Daedalus" should have been about the creation of the Daedalus class. Instead, it was about a transporter malfunction. Instead of the Romulan wars, we got the Xindi, which were never mentioned before, do not belong in the Star Trek universe, and were a total distraction. Not to mention that the entire season 3 Xindi arc was not preplanned and outlined whatsoever, and they were literally winging it as it went along.

What season 4 did was two fold: it did everything I mentioned about going into TOS, and it also cleaned up the canon mess the first three season created. How you manage to do that from the get go, I'm not particularly sure of. The way it turned out, it seems like there must have been something in that environment at that time that was the reason for all that. Certainly you could make the argument of just making it not be terrible from the word go just by having it not be terrible, and for no more reason than that.
 
There's a widely-accepted consensus among critics and Trekkies and the fourth season of Enterprise (by then, Star Trek: Enterprise) was easily the best. So let's say that the show had that sort of quality in the first season. If you want a specific POD, let's hand wave Manny Coto into becoming show runner (or one of several) in the first season, meaning that we even get a lot of similar plot lines.

So, if such an event had taken place, how long do you see the show lasting? Could it have gotten more accolades for a genre series, ala Battlestar Galactica or Game of Thrones? And then what would be the effect on the Star Trek franchise going forward?
Season 4 was good, but certainly not flawless. It still suffered from a couple of major problems Enterprise had. Mainly that the characters were either boring or horribly annoying (T'Poll). Also various episodes were flawed (the mirror episode was 1 episode too long for example). Still it was by far the best season of Enterprise. If Enterprise had that quality when it started and improved on it (boring characters can change into more interesting characters), Enterprise can be a seven season show, like the TNG, DS9 and Voyager. A new star Trek series could be created after it (probably at a different timeperiod, most likely either TNG era or TOS era).

Anyway Star Trek continues although it still will slowly decline. A major problem was that they decided to spend less and less on star trek every season. Star Trek did suffer because of it. Also it basicly lost viewers at every new series. Star Trek realy needed a series of TNG quality, which managed to draw in viewers, who normaly wouldn't watch a series like star trek. (something no other Star Trek series was able to do).
 
Season 4 was good, but certainly not flawless. It still suffered from a couple of major problems Enterprise had. Mainly that the characters were either boring or horribly annoying (T'Poll). Also various episodes were flawed (the mirror episode was 1 episode too long for example). Still it was by far the best season of Enterprise. If Enterprise had that quality when it started and improved on it (boring characters can change into more interesting characters), Enterprise can be a seven season show, like the TNG, DS9 and Voyager. A new star Trek series could be created after it (probably at a different timeperiod, most likely either TNG era or TOS era).

Anyway Star Trek continues although it still will slowly decline. A major problem was that they decided to spend less and less on star trek every season. Star Trek did suffer because of it. Also it basicly lost viewers at every new series. Star Trek realy needed a series of TNG quality, which managed to draw in viewers, who normaly wouldn't watch a series like star trek. (something no other Star Trek series was able to do).


personally i thought that the final episode was extremely annoying. It had all the makings of a perfect episode, but that idiot jonathan frakes had to put his moronic face in and ruin the episode. But guess his ego needed boosting (as if it wasn't reaching shatner levels of that).

Think Enterprise deserved a few more seasons to prove itself. after all the first TNG seasons weren't that perfect either.
 
personally i thought that the final episode was extremely annoying. It had all the makings of a perfect episode, but that idiot jonathan frakes had to put his moronic face in and ruin the episode. But guess his ego needed boosting (as if it wasn't reaching shatner levels of that).
Better Frakes than...well any actor in Enterpirse. There was noone, absolutely noone in Enterprise I liked. Ok, I like Shran. Still Shran was not Jeffrey Combs best (star trek) character. Both Brunt and certainly Weyoun were better.
Think Enterprise deserved a few more seasons to prove itself. after all the first TNG seasons weren't that perfect either.
Yeah, it did. At least it did after season 4. Season 1 and 2 were so bad I wouldn't have mind to see it canceled. Season 3 was ok (but had nothing to do with a star trek prequel).


Bah, Enterprise is such a wasted oppertunity. It could have been great, but is was terribly handled.
 

Ming777

Monthly Donor
I think one problem was they shoehorned the main cast into copies of TOS. I mean, they had Hoshi be an expy of Uhura with her and the Navigator switching ethnicities, the de facto tactical officer having a funny accent (Chekovs fake Russian with Reed's British), they switch personalities of the Doctor and Engineer, still had a Vulcan First Officer, and an generic American Captain.
 
I think one problem was they shoehorned the main cast into copies of TOS. I mean, they had Hoshi be an expy of Uhura with her and the Navigator switching ethnicities, the de facto tactical officer having a funny accent (Chekovs fake Russian with Reed's British), they switch personalities of the Doctor and Engineer, still had a Vulcan First Officer, and an generic American Captain.
I remembered when someone told me about the characters from Enterprise, before I had sen it. I hought he was making a joke and was descibing The original series.
 
along the star trek series i thought that the mirror universe episodes (also the ones in DS9) had lots of potential. Maybe they should do something with that.

A series built around the star trek mirror universe.
That should be interesting
 
along the star trek series i thought that the mirror universe episodes (also the ones in DS9) had lots of potential. Maybe they should do something with that.

A series built around the star trek mirror universe.
That should be interesting
No, the mirror universe is a gimmick and a gimmick that gets old soon. That was the problem of the Enterprise mirror universe. One episode was great. making a two parter was not anymore. An entire series about the mirror universe won't work. It is just an evil federation. the fun of it is seeing the familiar characters act alle evil. You can make at best one mirror episode a season, although in my opinion, it is better to make one, maybe 2 (or 0) per series.
 

Garrison

Donor
My general impression is that for the first couple of seasons they were desperately trying to escape the continuity of the Trek universe(flawed as it is) hence the Temporal Cold War and Xindi story lines. When they stopped trying to run away from it in Season 4 there was a marked improvement overall. So basically if they had embraced that from the start they would probably have gotten a better reception from trek fans and the show might have run longer.

As for the finale; well the fact that they allowed the Enterprise novels to basically tear it up and ignore it says a lot...
 
Ultimately, if you are making a prequel, it's to tell the background stories of things the viewers are familiar with.

The whole temporal Cold War nonsense meant nothing to anyone, and certainly wasn't going to bring in casual viewers.

Season 4 was better as they at least tried to tie things into TOS. The mini arc explaining the difference in Klingon appearance for example was a great idea. As where the Augments and Terra Prime.

So yeah, the show should have taken what we knew to be the back story; Earth's early first steps into the stars, attempting to build alliances, fix Earth and introduce the coming threat of the Romulans. Maybe toss in an ancestor of someone we know?


The same is true of the Xindi arc. Plus again the nonsense of a major world being totally undefended, even more annoyingly in the finale drove me up the wall.


Secondly the ship should have been closer to TOS rather than being an 'Akiraprise,' even something like the season 4 refit would have helped.
 
Resurrecting a corpse is tricky

There's a widely-accepted consensus among critics and Trekkies and the fourth season of Enterprise (by then, Star Trek: Enterprise) was easily the best. So let's say that the show had that sort of quality in the first season. If you want a specific POD, let's hand wave Manny Coto into becoming show runner (or one of several) in the first season, meaning that we even get a lot of similar plot lines.

So, if such an event had taken place, how long do you see the show lasting? Could it have gotten more accolades for a genre series, ala Battlestar Galactica or Game of Thrones? And then what would be the effect on the Star Trek franchise going forward?

I'd argue ST:E was doomed from the beginning, and for a reason alluded to in your intro: the fact that season 4 was liked by "critics and Trekkies". Let's look at the three major franchise resurrections in the 21st century: Ronald D. Moore's reboot of BSG, Russell T Davies's continuation of Doctor Who, JJ Abrams's Star Trek timey-wimey reboot. How did they achieve success where ST:E failed?

1) Respect the canon...
All three take place in universes which are similar to the original, with DW literally the same one, ST an alternate-reality version of the original, BSG similar tho' not identical. All versions acknowledge their past with actors/characters from the previous series making guest appearances.

2) ...then throw it away.
Retain the bare bones of the original franchise and lose everything else. BSG was a story about few surviving humans in a space convoy, DW is a holy fool with a wand in a timetravelling box, ST is 3 (or 7) Americans arguing in a big hard spaceship about big hard issues. Keep the basics and throw away the rest: invent a Time War or time travelling Romulans to wipe out 40 years of continuity cruft and let you get on with telling stories.

3) Do not use genre actors or writers.
If you appeal to your core crowd of fanboys, you will lose: you have to expand the appeal to include women, gays, and everybody else. BSG had Edward James Olmos and Mary McDonnell, DW had Christopher Ecclestone and Billie Piper, ST had Zachary Quinto, Chris Pine, Simon Pegg, Zoe Saldana, all of whom could bring in viewers outside the base.

4) Dripfeed in the shoutouts.
Reintroduce the back catalogue gradually: in DW season 1 was reintroducing the Daleks, season 2 the Cybermen, season 3 the Master, 4 Davros, and so on, in ST the Klingons didn't show up unmasked 'til ST:ID, in BSG you had to wait to see the classic Centurions, etc. This gives the base and the newbies something to look forward to.

ST:E did none of these things: it used genre actors (Scott Bakula? Really?), genre writers, genre producers, it added to the cruft (whose bright idea was it to bring in an Andorian? An alien with antennae? For frak's sake...) instead of ignoring/deleting it, it had people wearing funny costumes in unconvincing sets. It ended up talking to itself and nobody was interested.
 
As for the finale; well the fact that they allowed the Enterprise novels to basically tear it up and ignore it says a lot...

Yeah, it was so stupid. I mean, the engines were firewalled at warp 7, and yet that other ship, which was two full warp factors slower, still managed to catch the Enterprise. And then Trip randomly blows himself up, not to mention trying to weave it into Pegasus of all episdoes, not that Pegasus was a bad episode, it just didn't lend itself to this sort of thing. The only good part of that episode was Archer, Kirk and Picard reciting the opening narration.

Scott_B said:
Secondly the ship should have been closer to TOS rather than being an 'Akiraprise,' even something like the season 4 refit would have helped.

I would definitely agree with that. The design of the Enterprise was very flawed. The only way to really see it was from above or below. If you try to look at it from edge on, it disappears. What they should have done gone back to the design sketches for the original series and used one the rejected concepts, that way you get something unique, but at the same time, you still get a design that hints at the eventual evolution of Starfleet hull geometry. And you also need to make Archer, WAY more willing to kick ass. This was supposed to be Kirk's childhood hero. In the Sulu episode, in Voyager, Janeway even comments on how much fun it would have been to ride shotgun with Kirk and Spock.
 
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Sorry to pour cold water on this, but Enterprise probably still gets cancelled at the same time as OTL.

You can't just look at Enterprise in isolation. It premiered in the fifteenth year of continuous production of Star Trek television -- a franchise in which public interest had been declining for a long time already and had basically become a niche thing with a guaranteed viewer base of a particular size and little more than that. Something that many people don't realise is that Enterprise was actually the highest-rated show on UPN (or I think it interchanged with WWE Smackdown) -- the problem was that the numbers themselves weren't going to get any bigger. Hell, just look at OTL for proof: Enterprise got a whole lot better from season 3 onwards (I actually prefer season 3 to 4), and yet the ratings consistently went down. If I remember correctly, UPN saw a lot more potential in growth of viewership by taking their whole network in a new direction, by targeting their programming towards African-Americans. (I dunno, I guess Les Moonves believed that black people don't watch Star Trek or something.)
 
Sorry to pour cold water on this, but Enterprise probably still gets cancelled at the same time as OTL.

You can't just look at Enterprise in isolation. It premiered in the fifteenth year of continuous production of Star Trek television -- a franchise in which public interest had been declining for a long time already and had basically become a niche thing with a guaranteed viewer base of a particular size and little more than that. Something that many people don't realise is that Enterprise was actually the highest-rated show on UPN (or I think it interchanged with WWE Smackdown) -- the problem was that the numbers themselves weren't going to get any bigger. Hell, just look at OTL for proof: Enterprise got a whole lot better from season 3 onwards (I actually prefer season 3 to 4), and yet the ratings consistently went down. If I remember correctly, UPN saw a lot more potential in growth of viewership by taking their whole network in a new direction, by targeting their programming towards African-Americans. (I dunno, I guess Les Moonves believed that black people don't watch Star Trek or something.)

That speaks to the overall problem, though, doesn't it? That wasn't a destiny. Enterprise just furthered ongoing problems with the franchise and worsened them, rather than doing things right. It could have done things right.

The problem with the franchise became that it was increasingly poorly handled, featuring bland or bad storylines, not doing anything interesting, with poor or uninteresting story arcs, and uneven and inconsistent characterization. And because of that, it came to increasingly rely on it's niche who would watch Star Trek because it was Star Trek. And that was just lazy on the part of the people in charge, not to mention even those people stopped following new series and episodes as time went on. It was the fault of the people at the helm. That may be an inevitable problem with any production or franchise as time goes on. Regardless, it was certainly the case with Star Trek and "Enterprise".

I think Season 4 proves the idea that it could have been better. You could have started off strong, regained the viewers who fell off the wagon with DS9 or Voyager, gained new viewers, and reenergized the franchise after it had been diminishing ever since TNG ended. It could have appealed to TOS fans especially, who had very long been neglected. Enterprise had nothing but potential, and it could have been a real shot in the arm. Instead, it was more of the same problems that were killing the franchise.
 
I think Enterprise's big problem was that it was essentially a weaker version of Deep Space Nine but unlike DS9 it didn't have Voyager or Next Generation to carry the franchise. Having Season 4 quality in the first season will help but I think that the production team do need to sit down and think about what they want to do with the series.

As viewcode mentioned, the new Doctor Who got around all the continuity snarl that had built up over several decades by having an event occur which utterly changed the Whoverse while leaving it functionally the same. [The Time War] Plus it reset the Doctor's personality partially, making him more easy to relate to. Funny thing is that Enterprise had an even that was practically tailor made to do this; the events of First Contact. Having the end of that movie be the opening of Enterprise, with maybe an added scene to explain that Picard's actions created a slightly alternate timeline would work very well. Alternately have the Enterprise encounter a being early that call see the future, and have it explain that the future has altered. It eases the continuity problems but keeps things familiar.

I think another thing that needs to happen is that there needs to be more connection to the time period its set in. Its only been a century since a nuclear war, there should be some tension between different nationalities on the Enterprise. Show some ruins on Earth. The Eugenic Wars thread has Australia only join the United Earth in 2150, have something like that crop up during the show. In short show this isn't just a Next Generation wannabe but a different show set in a different time.

teg
 
Continuity snarl is not the problem. See for example Voyager. It was set in the delta quadrant where you basicly don't have any problems with continuity snarl as it is far away from klingons, Romulans etc and yet it is far weaker than DS9 which was set in the alpha quadrant and actualy used the continuity that TNG (and in a lesser way TOS) set up.

We have Enterprise, which was set in the past and could ditch a lot of things from the TNG era (there are no Borg, Dominion, Bajorans or Cardassians), could start without well known technologies (no transporters, phasers, replicators, etc) and still managed to screw up. It actualy ignored all the prequelstuff in season 1, 2 and 3 and yet it still failed.

So basicly I would say the core of the problem is not a nonexistant continuity snarl, but you simply need better writing, better characters and better ideas. Star Trek could easily continue without needing a reboot or pseudo reboot (which only pisses off fans) as long as you do it right. Also spend some time developing a new series. it isn't a disaster if there is 1 year without star trek. Now we don't have any star trek.
 
Continuity snarl is not the problem. See for example Voyager. It was set in the delta quadrant where you basicly don't have any problems with continuity snarl as it is far away from klingons, Romulans etc and yet it is far weaker than DS9 which was set in the alpha quadrant and actualy used the continuity that TNG (and in a lesser way TOS) set up.
The problem with Voyager was that it tried too hard to be TNG. They could've had continuity. The ship could've been, by the last episode, a slap-dashed hunk of metal held together by the blood, sweat, tears of the crew. They could've had serious threats. The replicators don't work? We have to go down and find some food, and so forth.

Except it ended up being trite storytelling, mostly horrible writing, little continuity, and Voyager was the HMS Reset Button.

Enterprise had potential too. It could've been the true 'boldly going where no man had gone before' and every episode was exploring a new planet. The two biggest problems of Enterprise was the writing, and the fact that Star Trek had been running continuously. People were tired of it.
 
It's still canceled around the same time as stated above, but maintains high praise among the core Trek fanbase, and the long-term 'butterflies' it causes are more respected - to be honest, I think the current Trek films could probably kill off Enterprise continuity-wise and nobody'd bat an eye one way or another.

I've avoided ENT since I haven't had a chance to finish previous series yet, but it's generally read to me that it didn't have a lot of great ongoing plots in terms of character or story, and something like that's always necessary. Even very subtle threads in shows with few fans, those give people a lot back and I've always seen them key to pleasing a fanbase.
 
Enterprise failed because the people in charge wanted to do a prequel without understanding what that entailed, because the network wanted a third TNG, because the writers assigned never took the time to really flesh out what they wanted, and because the overall writing was bland and boring.

Making the show quality from the get go would have preserved the chance to have more trek on tv.
 
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