Could the 1848 German revolutionaries have gotten more organized and more successful?
- Thread starter Seraphiel
- Start date
Seraphiel
Banned
Okay, then could the revolutionaries have managed to bring an army or two to their side? Or created some sort of armed force capable of holding their own against a counter-revolutionary army?
EDIT: Forgot, the Hecker Uprising in Baden, could Hecker have managed to get more popular republican support from Konstanz Republicans? And by doing that have managed to create a domino effect that would spread into Bavaria and the rest of Germany?
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Very little. Even the revolutionaries talked only about a parliamentary monarchy.
As for the original question, it's nothing doing as long as the peasant soldiers in the Prussian army continue to obey their officers - and with the abolition of feudal labour obligations, the peasants were reasonably content.
Perhaps a friendlier Friedrich William could order the army to help, but he wasn't very friendly OTL, and the army was already seething at what little he did have them do in support of the revolutionaries.
Seraphiel
Banned
Thats what I though, now in Austria could the revolution there have gone a totally different and chaotic path, say by having a revolutionaries killing von Metternich?
Also IF somehow the King of Prussia accepted the Imperial Crown, what would have been the reaction from Russia, France, Britain? Would Russia have considered military action? Would France have supported it?
Not to mention Austria. At this point the Austrian Empire was the leader of the German Confederation so they would be bound to be upset. Not to mention not all the German states would accept an Imperial Germany led by Prussia. We could see an earlier Austro-Prussian war, though with different results.
Seraphiel
Banned
Of course Austria would have been upset but I have my doubts that it would be able to do much in 48-49, it had the Hungarian and Italian rebellions to deal with, it even had to ask for help from Russia to defeat the rebellions.
Seraphiel
Banned
So here is a short scenario I dreamt up and I would like to know if you guys think its plausible.
The POD is on March 13th 1848 when von Metternich order soldiers to clear the streets of Vienna from protestors in OTL they open fire and kill 5 people though nothing much happens, TTL the troops do far more damage and many more Vienese protestors are killed by the soldiers. Enraged the crowds attack the soldiers with anything at hand and after an hour long street battle in front of the House of Estates on the Herrengasse the soldiers are all killed (or they surrender) and the revolutionaries storm the Hofburg. The enragrd and now bloodthristy revolutionaries (now lead by mostly radical democrats now) capture the royal family and most of the court and bring them to the Michaelsplatz and quickly start a number of quick trials. Three members of the Secret State Conference, von Metternich, von Lotowrat and Archduke Louis are executed on the grounds of ordering soldiers to murder the protestors, the fourth member Archduke Franz Carl brother of the current Emperor is not found guilty and along with the rest of the royal family is placed under house arrest in the Hofburg palace. The entire trials are very quick and it all lasts for barely two hours, afterwards the revolutionaries secure the rest of Vienna and arm themselves with captured weapons, the students form the Academic Legion. The following day Emperor Fredinand is coerced into abdicating in favor of his nephew, Franz Josef. Despite Franz Josefs rather conservative bent the revolutionaries manage to become puppet masters over the young emperor. A Constitutional Assembly is soon created with the goals being to forge a very liberal and democratic new constitution for the Austrian Empire. The reactionary aristocrats have other ideas however and in what is later widely regarded an over reaction to the events of March the 13th proclaim Franz Josefs brother Maximillian (who is ironically the more liberal of the two brothers) as the real Emperor.
The POD is on March 13th 1848 when von Metternich order soldiers to clear the streets of Vienna from protestors in OTL they open fire and kill 5 people though nothing much happens, TTL the troops do far more damage and many more Vienese protestors are killed by the soldiers. Enraged the crowds attack the soldiers with anything at hand and after an hour long street battle in front of the House of Estates on the Herrengasse the soldiers are all killed (or they surrender) and the revolutionaries storm the Hofburg. The enragrd and now bloodthristy revolutionaries (now lead by mostly radical democrats now) capture the royal family and most of the court and bring them to the Michaelsplatz and quickly start a number of quick trials. Three members of the Secret State Conference, von Metternich, von Lotowrat and Archduke Louis are executed on the grounds of ordering soldiers to murder the protestors, the fourth member Archduke Franz Carl brother of the current Emperor is not found guilty and along with the rest of the royal family is placed under house arrest in the Hofburg palace. The entire trials are very quick and it all lasts for barely two hours, afterwards the revolutionaries secure the rest of Vienna and arm themselves with captured weapons, the students form the Academic Legion. The following day Emperor Fredinand is coerced into abdicating in favor of his nephew, Franz Josef. Despite Franz Josefs rather conservative bent the revolutionaries manage to become puppet masters over the young emperor. A Constitutional Assembly is soon created with the goals being to forge a very liberal and democratic new constitution for the Austrian Empire. The reactionary aristocrats have other ideas however and in what is later widely regarded an over reaction to the events of March the 13th proclaim Franz Josefs brother Maximillian (who is ironically the more liberal of the two brothers) as the real Emperor.
Max Sinister
Banned
That's an exaggeration. After all, he said about the constitution that he "didn't want a piece of paper between me and my people". And tried to influence his successors to disregard the constitution if possible. (Though they didn't.)
IMHO; I think actions should perhaps qualify as much as words in determining someone's beliefs. For example, and I actually agree, that Friedrich Wilhelm wanted to be a populist king, whatever that was supposed to mean, at the same time; he is recorded as having been seriously offended by the start by the revolutionaries and their demands.