Flag Challenge 97

Which flag do you think is the best for the challenge?

  • One

    Votes: 7 10.0%
  • Two

    Votes: 7 10.0%
  • Three

    Votes: 1 1.4%
  • Four

    Votes: 18 25.7%
  • Five

    Votes: 20 28.6%
  • Six

    Votes: 8 11.4%
  • Seven

    Votes: 1 1.4%
  • Eight

    Votes: 7 10.0%
  • Nine

    Votes: 1 1.4%

  • Total voters
    70
Flag Challenge 97: American Monarchies

Your challenge is to create a flag for a monarchy anywhere in the Americas. These can be monarchic versions of OTL countries as well as new countries, surviving indigenous monarchies, or transplanted monarchies from other continents.

Voting begins: Sunday, August 11
Voting ends: Sunday, August 18

Dates are PST (GMT -8).

Entry One - Alternatehistorybuff5341
The French Empire of Louisiana

Napoleon obtained the Louisiana territory from Spain in the 1800 Treaty of Ildefonso. The intention of the territory was to serve as a strategic holding to assist in the development of the Haitian Colony, in the hopes that Haiti would become a profitable source of French income. In OTL, the Haitian Revolution earns the Haitians independence; and as such, Louisiana was more cost than it was worth. Napoleon sold the territory to the United States under President Jefferson in 1803.

In this world, the Haitian Revolution is crushed by the French Military. So, Napoleon never sells Louisiana. The war in Europe continues for the most part unaltered, and Napoleon's forces were defeated in 1814. However, rather than accept surrender at the hands of his enemies. On the eve of the Battle of Paris, Napoleon fled the continent and sailed west with his supporters.

Napoleon first settled in Haiti, and continued to rule as French Emperor, though in exile. The legitimate French Government began plans to reconquer the New World Territories, but Napoleon struck a deal with the other colonial powers. He would make no attempt at claiming, attacking or conquering any other colonial possessions, as long as they kept France off his back. With their colonial holdings already unstable (With several claims of independence), a deal was struck.

All was well for Napoleon until the Second Haitian Revolution began a decade later. The Napoleonic forces eventually had to abandon the region, and fled to New Orleans.

Here, Napoleon established a base of power and loyal supporters throughout the territory. He would continue to rein as self titled French Emperor until his death in 1830. His son, Napoleon II, would rename the territory and the monarchy, having accepted that Napoleonic control over France Proper was no longer possible. Thus, the French Empire of Louisiana was born. The United States did not enjoy having a monarchy right next door, but with the port of New Orleans open to all trade, including American, the new found Empire was tolerated.

In the 1890s, a Revolution would attempt to overthrow Napoleon IV, but a compromise was reached and a Parliament Assembly was established. Today Louisiana is a moderately powerful state, with it's exports earning it the title "Bread basket of the world". Though the culture is definitely French, the years an entirely unique Louisianian culture has developed. Napoleon VI reigns on the throne, while the Conservateur party holds a majority government, with a Labor-Social Démocrate coalition opposition.

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Entry Two - King Alvar I

Kingdom of California
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Entry Three - Simreeve

Original flag for
The Kingdom of America

This nation was established, in personal union and imperial federation with the Kingdom of Great Britain, in the year 1769AD, as a result of prolonged discussions between representatives of British government and of the British colonies in North America. God bless King Frederick!

(OOC: This is [a slightly improved version of] my first attempt at creating a flag for the ‘Kingdom of America’ from my still-being-planned ‘Wider Still, And Wider’ [or ‘Earth-Fred’] TL, in which King George II was seriously wounded at the Battle of Dettingen [in 1744] and therefore did not outlive his eldest son Frederick, Prince of Wales, as happened IOTL. As king, Frederick continued to support Pitt and other relatively liberal politicians rather than his father’s old favourites, and they had the sense to begin those discussions with the colonies’ representatives — which initially were about how the colonies’ defence would be financed — during their equivalent of the ‘Seven Years War’ rather than waiting until the period after that conflict when the colonials felt less need to accept reasonable terms. As consequently established the Kingdom had comparable autonomy to OTL Canada c.WW1, but also with some seats in the Westminster parliament [including places for 2 ‘Senators’ at a time per colony amongst the Lords, on a ‘life’ basis] — with it being understood from the start that these American representatives would not vote on any solely ‘British’ matters — and a guaranteed place in the Cabinet for its ‘High Commissioner’: The full-fledged ‘Imperial Council’, meeting separately from the British Parliament, was a later development.)


Explanation

The canton of a Union Flag obviously indicates this kingdom’s British origins and continued connections. The green field for the remainder of the design stands for newness, growth, and hope (OOC: although I’m slightly concerned that in fact the suggestion of using this green field might actually have been dismissed IITL for looking “too Irish”…), with the Sun-and-Waves emblem in the upper fly being the main emblem for the new kingdom and symbolising “A New Day Dawning Across The Ocean”: The smile on the face of the sun represents the friendly nature of the kingdom’s foundation, and IC ITTL was not “borrowed” from the [later, anyway] Argentine flag.
Below that emblem we have a circle [approximately] of twelve stars to represent the twelve colonies that became the nation’s first two ‘cantons’, surrounding a crown to symbolise not only the loyalty that holds them together but also (at least according to later definitions) the American Capital Territory, and two more stars that — paler than the others, but closer to the Crown — represent the 2 additional colonies that were also included in the kingdom but as ‘provinces’ (with less say in the new government, but with more autonomy from it as well) rather than as cantons.
Some people actually go even further with the symbolic interpretation, and assign each of those stars to a specific canton or province, based on their relative positions: Four for the four ‘New England’ cantons (New Hampshire, Massachusetts [at that date still including (most of) Maine], Rhode Island, and Connecticut [which ITTL includes the eastern end of Long Island]) along the top, four for Virginia and the cantons to its south (North Carolina, South Carolina, Guelphia [in OTL terms, basically eastern & central Georgia]) along the bottom, and four in between for the four ‘middle cantons’ that are split 2-&-2 on either side of the ring: The pair on one side are said to stand for the pair of colonies/cantons that had been carved out of the old “New Netherlands”, i.e. New Yorkshire [in OTL terms = New York, less Long Island and the Iroquois lands, but plus northern New Jersey] and New Lincolnshire [in OTL terms a combination of southern New Jersey with Delaware], whilst the pair on the other side represent their western & south-western neighbours Sylvania [in OTL terms, basically eastern & central Pennsylvania] and Maryland respectively. One of the paler, inner stars then stands for Nova Scotia [in OTL terms including all 3 of the Maritime Provinces, plus bits of both Maine and Quebec], and the other for ‘Florida’ [including the ‘West Florida’ lands which that territory lost to other states IOTL].


Later versions of the flag add further stars as the numbers of cantons and provinces increase, up to the 23+5 that were recognised as of the year 1913, with that part of the design stretched out horizontally and moved hoist-wards so that it was centred relative to the flag’s length. Territories, other than the ACT [which consists of the city of ‘Kingston’, with a small hinterland, and occupies the western end of Long Island], have never been represented in the design.


(I’ll have a go at the 1913 design, and post that as well, when I’ve got a little bit more time available.)


(I admit that the image as posted still needs depixelllating in places, and probably better contrast and more brightness for the 'smiling sun' emblem. Art isn't really my strongest field of ability...)

And then in the following three posts we have the KoA's naval ensign (for the 'American Division of the Royal Navy' initially, from the foundation of that force during the 'Louisiana War' of 1776-'83 until a date that I've yet to decide about...), naval jack, and merchant ensign.


Kingdom of America (national flag)

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Entry Four - xt828

By the power of applied handwavium, the Mississippian mound-building cultures survive and prosper. This is the flag of what IOTL is called Cahokia, ITTL a powerful state in central *North America.

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Entry Five - CyberPhoenix001

Well, I've never entered a contest before, but I had this flag lying around, so what the hell?

No real elaborate backstory: the basic idea is that the Seven Years War lasts for a year longer, allowing for Pitt to push for a harder peace. Louisiana and the French Caribbean are annexed.

The French Revolution kicks off several decades earlier; as a result, the British clamp down a bit harder on the colonists, aborting the American Revolution. In time, the British and the Americans work out a compromise and establish British North America as an independent constitutional monarchy.

The flag design takes elements from the flag of Britian, but with a reversed colour scheme, reflecting the Kingdom of North America's status as "Britain, on the other side of the Atlantic". In the centre, are 13 stars representing the 13 original colonies, symbolising their proud heritage, with a larger star in the centre symbolising their unity under their own monarch.

The Kingdom of North America:
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Entry Six - viperhawkz

During the first years of its existence, the Royaume du Canada (variably translated as the Realm or Kingdom of Canada) simply used the flag of New France as its symbol. However, as it became more and more clear to the state's rulers that they could never retake France itself, and as Canadian nationalism began to grow, a new flag was adopted. This flag would remain Canada's flag even after the monarchy was eventually abolished in the late 19th century.

The white cross on blue represents France and the nation's colonial origin. The red canton is Canada's national colour, representing its forests in the fall. The gold stars represent the country's seven provinces: Acadie, Québec, Ohio, Louisiane, les Plaines, Colombie, and les Territoires du Nord-Ouest.



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Entry Seven - The Professor

Kingdom of New Lorraine (Conincryk Niu Lorryn)

The Kingdom of New Lorraine has its origins in the Atlantian [1] hanse [2] colonies of the Duchy of Nether Lorraine established shortly before the Elector Wars.
Originally administered by the German Roman hanses they came under the Lorrainian Atlantian Hanse during the nascent years of that Kingdom and experienced a surge of settlement from dissidents adhering to the Napolese Roman Church rather than the Catholic Synod established by the Edict of Constance.
The rise of internal dissent and financial issues caused Queen Emma of Lorraine to absorb the Atlantian portion of the LAH under Royal Administration with them later reorganised as the Kingdom of New Lorraine as a separate royal crown.
The Monarch of Lorraine is represented by a ViceRoy - typically the 2nd in line to the Crown - though for 1895-1902 this was the Crown Prince in exile.

The Flag is a simplified version of the old LAH ensign - black and gold stripes with an offset/counterchanged pale near the hoist

[1] OTL North America
[2] Merchant Guilds / Trading Companies

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Entry Eight - Kate The Great
In 1801 the British Prime Minister William Pitt (‘Pitt the Younger’) negotiated the purchase of Spanish lands on the west coast of America, roughly from Vancouver Island to San Francisco bay and abutting the French possession of Louisiana. At the time, Pitt was subject to much outrage and abuse, though he had the strong support of the King, but when the US President Aaron Burr purchased Louisiana from Napoleon, Pitt’s action was declared masterful and a political triumph.

Two months after the death of Napoleon at the Battle of Leipzig (1813) Pitt resigned. The Colony of Columbia came into being in 1815, mainly from lands involved in the Pitt Purchase. Columbia declined to join the Confederation of Canada (1867) and was declared the ‘Dominion of Columbia’ in 1870. It received independence as a constitutional monarchy within the British Commonwealth in 1929.

It was while she was in Columbia that the current monarch, Queen Anne II, learned of the deaths (1998) of her brother Henry IX and his partner Reginald Simpson in a car crash in Paris. The coronation of Anne took place in Westminster Abbey in June 1999.

Columbia has had three flags –

The Union, or Royal Union, flag (1815-1870)

The Dominion flag (1870-1929)

And its current flag (1929-) {MY ENTRY!!!!!!!!!}




Note:
This timeline -
Pitt the Younger was Prime Minister from 1783 to 1813
Aaron Burr was US President from 1801 to 1809
There is no South American nation of Columbia, its nearest equivalent being the Granadine Union

Entry Nine - titulus regius


Verenigde Staten van Amerika

(Sorry, not much time for blurb)

With the annexation of the Netherlands by the French in 1801, the eleven Dutch colonies in north-east America, who had for years enjoyed a large degree of self-government, joined together to proclaim an independent "Verenigde Staten van Amerika". In 1803 they adopted a flag comprising 11 orange/white horizontal stripes and a top left canton of 11 orange stars on a blue background. After much debate, in a final vote of the Assembly the advocates of a republic were narrowly defeated by the monarchists. Willem Batavus was proclaimed King.

Today the VS comprises 38 states, as evidenced by the 38 stars in the canton. It is a constitutional monarchy, with the powers of the monarch largely ceremonial.

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I liked 4 and 5 almost equally, but 4 had a more creative premise, so there have you.
 
I liked 4 and 5 almost equally, but 4 had a more creative premise, so there have you.
#4 has a creative premise, I admit, and it looks pretty, but where's the context? i.e. what makes that particular design so appropriate specifically for a surviving Cahokia?
 
The solar wheel was one of the key symbols associated with the Mound Builders in general and has been found at Cahokia, while the yellow/blue/red colour scheme seems to have been a common one with which to depict both the colour wheel and other associated symbols.
 
Ursa can't be worsa

Entry #2 look horrendous. Bears wearing crowns, let alone hats, simply look ridiculous. The red stripe looks like a tossed on addition and the patch of green earth under the bear makes the flag look incomplete. Crowns should be the same if two are really called for.
 
Entry #2 look horrendous. Bears wearing crowns, let alone hats, simply look ridiculous. The red stripe looks like a tossed on addition and the patch of green earth under the bear makes the flag look incomplete. Crowns should be the same if two are really called for.

I liked 4 and 5 equally, but 5 won out in the end.

However, I *loved* the bear wearing the crown. ...That said, I also think the crowns should have been the same (or the one on the left removed), plus I had some issues with the centering and pixelization.
 
I liked 4 most, nearly went for 5 but there are a few too many elements for my liking (red field with a white saltire and a white cross and a blue cross and a white cross and a blue cross and a white disc and a blue disc and a white disc and a blue disc and a circle of stars around a star). I also liked that 4 eschewed the standard flag shape for the far-less common lanceolate shape, giving it a feeling of certain other-ness.
 
I'm surprised 6 and 7 don't have more votes - they're both very strong, simple and distinct flags, and match their backstories.
 
So, out of interest, what details are putting people off of #3?

The quality of the artwork?
Too complicated?
Its inclusion of the Union Flag, & the pro-British backstory?
 
So, out of interest, what details are putting people off of #3?

The quality of the artwork?
Too complicated?
Its inclusion of the Union Flag, & the pro-British backstory?

Just personally, the quality of the artwork is a pretty big vote against it. It's an interesting idea and composition, but it looks terribly pixellated and blurry. The same goes for the hoist crown of Alvar's composition. Another thing is that the waves? - the blue and white lines - are sort of hanging in the middle of the flag - if you wanted to review the composition at a later date, perhaps look to the Australian flag as a template and have one element in the fly and one centred under the union jack in the hoist. I'd suggest your sun in the latter position, and the star patter, rotated to be longer vertically, in the former.
 
Just personally, the quality of the artwork is a pretty big vote against it. It's an interesting idea and composition, but it looks terribly pixellated and blurry. The same goes for the hoist crown of Alvar's composition. Another thing is that the waves? - the blue and white lines - are sort of hanging in the middle of the flag - if you wanted to review the composition at a later date, perhaps look to the Australian flag as a template and have one element in the fly and one centred under the union jack in the hoist. I'd suggest your sun in the latter position, and the star patter, rotated to be longer vertically, in the former.
Thank you for commenting.

Yes, I suspected that the blurriness might be a problem, although when I originally posted the flag (before going with this revised version in a new post, instead) it would actually have been #1 rather than #3 and so I didn't have any of its competitors with which to compare qualities.
However, in my defence, it's no blurrier than some images that I've seen where modern books on vexillology have reproduced images from books originally published back around the period when this design is supposed to have originated... so perhaps people could try thinking of it in that context? ;)


The waves are where they are because they and the sun are supposed to be seen in combination with each other as a single element of the design: The [smiling] sun above the waves symbolises the new kingdom formed "over the sea " from Britain (This is perhaps more obvious in the KoA's naval jack:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=8006664&postcount=2070), and the stars for the cantons & provinces (& the crown for the 'capital territory') are under that part of the design rather than under the Union Flag because the lands that they represent are "under" the government of the new kingdom rather than directly under the British government. It makes sense symbolically that way around, you see, even if that doesn't necessarily give the most aesthetically pleasing result.
 
Thank you for commenting.

Yes, I suspected that the blurriness might be a problem, although when I originally posted the flag (before going with this revised version in a new post, instead) it would actually have been #1 rather than #3 and so I didn't have any of its competitors with which to compare qualities.

However, in my defence, it's no blurrier than some images that I've seen where modern books on vexillology have reproduced images from books originally published back around the period when this design is supposed to have originated... so perhaps people could try thinking of it in that context? ;)

The waves are where they are because they and the sun are supposed to be seen in combination with each other as a single element of the design: The [smiling] sun above the waves symbolises the new kingdom formed "over the sea " from Britain (This is perhaps more obvious in the KoA's naval jack), and the stars for the cantons & provinces (& the crown for the 'capital territory') are under that part of the design rather than under the Union Flag because the lands that they represent are "under" the government of the new kingdom rather than directly under the British government. It makes sense symbolically that way around, you see, even if that doesn't necessarily give the most aesthetically pleasing result.

That waves really don't do it for me at all - I don't like non-self contained artistic elements in a flag. As part of a coat of arms, or as the field, the wave pattern would be fine, but I really dislike is as is, in both flag and jack. Remember that you don't have to jam all of a nation's symbolism into the flag. The reason that I perceived the stars and the sun to be separate is twofold - firstly, suns and stars are not typically associated with each other given that they tend to be an either/or proposition to see in the sky. Secondly, the way they're laid out, the stars are a contained pattern, and the sun is distinct from it - they don't obviously share a relationship on the flag.

On the note of clarity of image - I know that quite a few of the flag-makers around here use Inkscape because of how much easier it makes resolving the pixellation issue, and how much easier it makes it to recolour elements taken from other flags, and because of the huge repository of sample images which can easily be modified on Wikipedia and the like.

Perhaps they're not "American" enough for voters? ;)

I don't know that mine's particularly American, but I'm coming second.
 
On the note of clarity of image - I know that quite a few of the flag-makers around here use Inkscape because of how much easier it makes resolving the pixellation issue, and how much easier it makes it to recolour elements taken from other flags, and because of the huge repository of sample images which can easily be modified on Wikipedia and the like.
Alas, no computer of my own: I'm currently using one at the local library, which offers no 'artistic' options other than Paint...
 
Alas, no computer of my own: I'm currently using one at the local library, which offers no 'artistic' options other than Paint...

I think it should be possible to put Paint.Net on a thumb drive, so you could try that for the future...of course, in your case I'm not sure how you would get Paint.Net onto a thumb drive in the first place.
 
Alright, the challenge is over and future votes won't be counted. The winner, with 20 votes, is CyberPhoenix001. Congratulations to him and all the other contestants and thanks to everyone who voted.
 
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