If I understand correctly, Prussia was an area inhabited by Baltic tribes. However, then Germans settled and made it a German place. What if the same thing happened in the area we call Poland? By the alt-1900s, Warschau would be as Germanized as Konigsburg in OTL. How would that effect the world.
Idea: Poland similar to Prussia
- Thread starter Baconheimer
- Start date
By 1000 AD Poland was Christian and much of Germany was still Slavic. A big part of why Prussia was able to be germanized is that it was pagan so they where able to essentially completely destroy the upper strata of Prussian society and replace it with Germans.
Germaniac
Donor
I'm sure there is a way to effectively germanize the poles if they don't convert to christianity , but the real question is why? This is a recurring problem on this board about what are Germans and what are Poles. Poland is simply too large to absorb into any type of future Germany anyway.
What about this have the Mongols still cause death and destruction in Central Europe but the Mongols use Tartar or Cuman armies instead of Mongols themselves, the only Mongols are the commanders, that will prevent the Black death from ravaging Germany since IOTL Black death did not affect Poland and the Germans will resettle a Poland that has been ravaged by the Mongols, if the Germans resettle Poland it will cause the Poles to be heavily influenced by Germans although still speaking a slavic language or worst Germanize or turn Poland in a situation similar to Scotland or Ireland.
You know even with the Mongols using other people as their soldiers (which by the way, they actually did do, it's just that for the most part their nomadic allies fought and acted pretty much the same as the mongols so very few Europeans cared about the difference) the plague would still probably get to europe with time. It's not clear whether or not the Mongol siege of Kaffa actually caused the plague to spread there or if the plague naturally got there shortly after the siege through trade. Whichever one is the case isn't really important though because either way the black death is likely to reach Europe even with the Mongols using different soldiers or even if the Mongols don't come to power at all. The two halves of Eurasia where just too connected for something to not spread eventually.
Prussia was Germanized because its inhabitants remained pagan, and when the Baltic Crusades began they were wiped out. For the same to happen for Poland, then Poland could not already be Christian. Of course, if Poland was not Christian, then it'd be incredibly hard for the Germans to push east. A major reason why Germany was able to germanize the western slavs in their lands is that Christian Germany and Poland were hammer and anvil to them, and they were isolated and overwhelmed.
It's conceivable that at some point, a pagan Poland would be defeated and germanized, but only because while the Germans attack in the west, the Orthodox Russians attack from the east. At which point, most of eastern Poland become Russified. It is also probable that Bohemia expands as well taking much of Poland, or at least the area around Krakow. The area of Poland to be Germanized would probably be a lot smaller than you suppose.
It's conceivable that at some point, a pagan Poland would be defeated and germanized, but only because while the Germans attack in the west, the Orthodox Russians attack from the east. At which point, most of eastern Poland become Russified. It is also probable that Bohemia expands as well taking much of Poland, or at least the area around Krakow. The area of Poland to be Germanized would probably be a lot smaller than you suppose.
PoeFacedKilla
Banned
I would argue back then Poland was Russian, at least there wasn't really a difference.
Also the Poles weren't the Old Prussians there were alot of them and even if the Germans did manage to win a war against them so what? They can convert them all they like German may even become the lingua franca for awhile but eventually "Poles" will reammerge even if they speak a Germanic language it will be heavily influenced by old west slavic and won't be German so they will always have an identity.
I actually think it would be cooler for Lithuania to obsorb Poland or at least for the OTL GD of Lithuania to "Lithuanianize" its territory so that we have a large Batlic state to this day.
Me too, otherwise I probably wouldn't have clicked the jump, but oh well they won't be erasing poland off the map without Nazi style tactics.
People trying to erase poland are so common in those board it is no longer a surprise.
Anyway like other people said it is not possible to germanize poland without being nazi-like. In 1000, it is estimated that poland had 1.25 million inhabitant and germany 3 million. Not a big enough difference to allow for military conquest and then population replacement, and population movement is to exclude as Poland was seen as an even worse territory than Germany