Lady Jane Grey is born male

Lady Jane Grey was famously, briefly enthroned as the successor to King Edward VI, before quickly being deposed by Queen Mary. Now I do not know how genetically reasonable this is, but what if Jane had been born as a man? Assuming history up through the final days of King Edward VI occur more or less as they did, what effect would this have upon the course of events after Edward dies?
 
But things will not remain the same as OTL through the final days of Edward VI if Jane Grey is born male - "Henry Grey" I suppose. Events will diverge long before then, as the Duke & Duchess of Suffolk will act differently, as will the Duke of Northumberland and of course Jane/"Henry" Grey her/him-self. That said, This change would probably strengthen Edward's desire that his successor be both Protestant and male. "Henry" would not be a mere pawn in the royal succession struggle as Jane mostly was, so, if he's able to rally popular support around him and if he has the political muscle behind him that briefly put Jane upon the throne OTL, he might become and remain King Henry IX.
 
if he has the political muscle behind him that briefly put Jane upon the throne OTL, he might become and remain King Henry IX.
Remember that the main political muscle behind Jane's succession was her father-in-law the Duke of Northumberland. I suppose he did have daughters, one of whom could perchance marry "Henry Grey." However, the negotiations and the relations between the spouses would almost certainly go far differently... at least, I don't think Northumberland would consider "Henry" under his thumb anywhere near as much as I think he considered Jane. So, "Henry" very well might not have Jane's support base.
 
But things will not remain the same as OTL through the final days of Edward VI if Jane Grey is born male - "Henry Grey" I suppose. Events will diverge long before then, as the Duke & Duchess of Suffolk will act differently, as will the Duke of Northumberland and of course Jane/"Henry" Grey her/him-self. That said, This change would probably strengthen Edward's desire that his successor be both Protestant and male. "Henry" would not be a mere pawn in the royal succession struggle as Jane mostly was, so, if he's able to rally popular support around him and if he has the political muscle behind him that briefly put Jane upon the throne OTL, he might become and remain King Henry IX.

You are of course absolutely correct in saying that everything would change from the moment of his birth on. I put that caveat there to, somewhat selfishly perhaps, limit discussion to its impact on the succession, avoiding possibilities like Edward living to adulthood, dying considerably sooner, being raised as a religious conservative like his father etc. I know that might be a rather large butterfly net.
 
While he would not be as under Norththumberland's thumb as Jane was, would Norththumberland not see him as the preferable alternative claimant to Mary? Granted a lack of family promotion may very well dampen his enthuisasm, neither he nor anyone in his political circle seems to have wanted a Marian succession for rather obvious reasons. and this fear of Queen Mary taking the throne, at least from the little I have read on the subject, was a strong motivation for everyone who tried to place her on the throne. Better a Protestant King than a Catholic Queen. If Norththumberland does not want Mary to become Queen, what better choice for a Protestant successor would be available to him, given that the only way to block Mary also bars Elizabeth from the throne? Or am I giving too much credit to his hostility to Mary taking the throne?
 
Better a Protestant King than a Catholic Queen.
This could garner a lot of support from other nobles. However, it does depend on which of Henry VIII's wills is accepted as the real one. On OTL lords were looking at the choice of an an Catholic queen ruling in her own right or Protestant queen under the thumb of a leading lord. Obviously the Catholics will expected to back the first one, but it splits the Protestant because to support Queen Jane is to give great power to a rival because he can marry her to a son of his.

Whilst there is some of this with a potential Henry IX, you are supporting a male against a female and when he come sof age he can always divorce any wife fostered onto him in his youth. Like father, like so to speak. ;)
 
The key reason for Mary I's successful eclipse of Lady Jane Grey was the fact that she was the daughter of Henry VIII and next in line for the throne. In fact, Elizabeth supported Mary against Jane precisely because advancing this notion that all the children of Henry VIII came before all the children of his sisters suited her interests perfectly, in the event Mary I died without an heir of her body. (Which as we all know was a bet she would eventually win.) Whether the alternative being advanced to Mary was a man or a woman, the key question faced by the polity had to be why the living children of the dead king should be passed over. And apparently, not much credence was given to the idea of Mary's bastardy as a child of incest between brother- and sister-in-law. Maybe making the putative ruler a male or making them older would make for some difference, but the essential thrust of the matter as far as the English people were concerned had to do with family trees more than religious doctrine. So gender here to some extent is ultimately beside the point.
 
The key reason for Mary I's successful eclipse of Lady Jane Grey was the fact that she was the daughter of Henry VIII and next in line for the throne. In fact, Elizabeth supported Mary against Jane precisely because advancing this notion that all the children of Henry VIII came before all the children of his sisters suited her interests perfectly, in the event Mary I died without an heir of her body. (Which as we all know was a bet she would eventually win.) Whether the alternative being advanced to Mary was a man or a woman, the key question faced by the polity had to be why the living children of the dead king should be passed over. And apparently, not much credence was given to the idea of Mary's bastardy as a child of incest between brother- and sister-in-law. Maybe making the putative ruler a male or making them older would make for some difference, but the essential thrust of the matter as far as the English people were concerned had to do with family trees more than religious doctrine. So gender here to some extent is ultimately beside the point.

Exactly. I don't think Janes gender would really matter. The question was really over the rights of the late Kings children and whether or not the King (Edward VI) had the power to disinherit his sisters without an act of Parliament. A question that would be decided in favor of Mary and Elizabeth. Also I think people are overplaying the religious part. Most of England was CATHOLIC at this point. They saw Mary as the hope of their religion. Edward VI's religious policies didn't go over that well with the common people. Also, one of the problems Jane had was no one knew who she was. Everyone knew Mary and Elizabeth as the Kings daughters. Jane would be a distant niece of Henry VIII, not that prestigious as a King's daughter. Oh and to Mary's so called bastardy, no one really believed that except for Henry and those who thought it convenient. The fact that Catherine of Aragon was Henry's most popular Queen didn't hurt Mary's chances either.
 
This could garner a lot of support from other nobles. However, it does depend on which of Henry VIII's wills is accepted as the real one.
Really? There was a question?

Also I think people are overplaying the religious part. Most of England was CATHOLIC at this point. They saw Mary as the hope of their religion. Edward VI's religious policies didn't go over that well with the common people.
Do you have a source for this?
 
Exactly. I don't think Janes gender would really matter. The question was really over the rights of the late Kings children and whether or not the King (Edward VI) had the power to disinherit his sisters without an act of Parliament. A question that would be decided in favor of Mary and Elizabeth. Also I think people are overplaying the religious part. Most of England was CATHOLIC at this point. They saw Mary as the hope of their religion. Edward VI's religious policies didn't go over that well with the common people. Also, one of the problems Jane had was no one knew who she was. Everyone knew Mary and Elizabeth as the Kings daughters. Jane would be a distant niece of Henry VIII, not that prestigious as a King's daughter. Oh and to Mary's so called bastardy, no one really believed that except for Henry and those who thought it convenient. The fact that Catherine of Aragon was Henry's most popular Queen didn't hurt Mary's chances either.

Yeah, we are definitely on the same page here.
 
I think it is more honest historically to say that Edward VI's reforms went further down the path of reform destroying much of what most people considered their religious life and the form of their faith to be rather than the fact the country was full of devout Roman Catholics longing to return to Rome.
The reformation genie had been let out of the bottle and there was growing Protestant sects of all variety's forming however for the majority (not the extremes of either side) Henrician Anglicanism (catholic light perhaps) was acceptable - the tenets of the faith were unchanged, the principle difference was the crown in charge rather than Rome - Edward's reforms were essentially a full scale reformation that Henry had resisted.
The majority of the country were Henrician Catholic or Anglo Catholic rather than Roman Catholic - not that there was much difference.
Mary's actions of course went further than many had expected or desired and pushed the realm towards the moderate Protestant settlements of Elizabeth and James which actually didn't satisfy either side but satisfied the majority in the middle.

Edward's device had two purposes it satisfied his personal largely religiously informed view that a woman should not rule over men - he wanted to avoid a female succession - his device first read the Lady Jane Grey's heirs male - and of course wanted to avoid the succession of his Catholic half sister - Elizabeth had to be excluded because like Mary she was illegitimate and to exclude both was easier.
If Jane is born male then Edward's device may well read the Lord Henry Grey and his heirs male instead - but the support will be no stronger than that was there for Jane.
The privy council supported Jane until Mary rose up and had herself proclaimed QUeen and marched on London then they slipped away quietly to offer their support to Mary.

Jane's lack of support was because irrespective of religion the vast majority of the country couldn't bear the exclusion of the great Henry's daughter's and their replacement in the succession with a girl of common descent who most had never heard of.

If Henry Grey is named King he is the same age as Jane probably a boy hood playmate of the late Edward but the same issues remain - his claim is weak and he lacks the support of most of the country.
 
If Henry Grey is named King he is the same age as Jane probably a boy hood playmate of the late Edward but the same issues remain - his claim is weak and he lacks the support of most of the country.


Though being male does give him one advantage. He can strengthen his claim by marrying Mary or (far more likely) Elizabeth.
 
Edward and everyone else knew Elizabeth would never shoot herself in the foot by attempting to usurp Mary's rightful throne. That said, the chances of a Henry Grey being more successful than Jane Grey are substantially bigger. Edward could make the argument that the English throne had always been inherited by males, but permitting descent through the female line: Henry Grey could marry Mary in the rushed marriage negotiations before Edward's death, with Northumberland contenting himself by marrying his son/brother/cronies to Elizabeth, Catherine and Mary Grey and Margaret Clifford.
 
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