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Old June 29th, 2013, 12:59 AM
Paul V McNutt Paul V McNutt is offline
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Paul V McNutt and the Supremes

This is not about any girl groups of the 60s. It concerns the US Supreme Court. Our first P.O.D. is Earl Warren announcing his retirement a year earlier in 1967. (OTL he did so in 1968, President Lyndon Johnson wanted to replace Warren with his friend Associate Justice Abe Fortas. but Republican Senators filibustered Fortas nomination in a successful attempt to let Nixon fill the vacancy. ) Fortas won approval The Senate also confirmed Homer Thornberry another Johnson crony for Fortas' seat. In 1967 the busy Senate also approved Thurgood Marshall, who replaced Tom Clark who resigned when his son Ramsey was named Attorney General.
In 1971, Hugo Black and John Harlan retired. President Richard Nixon's replacement for Harlan, Warren Berger easily won Senate confirmation but the Senate rejected Clement Haynesworth. Nixon's choice for Black's seat. Hayensworth's replacement G. Harold Carswell also did not win his Senate vote. Nixon then named Warren Berger's friend Harry Blackmun who won approval.. 1975 President Ford replaced William O Douglas with John Paul Stevens.In 1978, Homer Thornberry resigned and President Carter named the first women justice Shirley Hoffstedder. In 1979, Carter replaced retiring Chief Justice Fortas with FBI Frank Johnson. ( Johnson was Federal District Court Judge in Alabama. He issued number of rulings that helped the civil rights movement. OTL in 1977, Carter wanted to appoint him Director of the FBI, but he had to decline because of a health problem. IN 1979, Carter elevated him to the Court Appeals. Since I don't think a newly selected appeals court judge would have the credibility to be named Chief Justice, I butter fled away his 1977 illness.) In 1981, President Reagan named Robert Bork to replace Potter Stewart. . In 1987, Reagan named Anton Scalia after Warren Burger retired. In 1990 President Bush named David Souter to take the place of William Brennan In 1993 President Clinton named Harry Edwards to replace Thurgood Marshall, George Mitchell to take the place of Chief Justice Johnson. Ruth Bader Ginsberg replaced Byron White. In 1994 Clinton choose Steven Breyer to replace Harry Blackmun. . In 2003 David Souter retired and President Gore choose Sonya Sotomeyer In 2005 Shirley Hoffstedder retired and Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm took her place. In 2007 President Gore picked Diane Wood to replace John Paul Stevens. Wood's appointment gave the giving the court its first female majority. On December 19, 2012 Justice Bork died. Outgoing President Mitt Romney became the first president since Andrew Johnson not have the opportunity to name a Supreme Court Justice. Democratic Senate leaders informed the president that they would not consider any nominee he sent down, President Elect Barrack Obama named Harvard Law School Dean Elena Kagen. After the end of the 2013 term Chef Justice Mitchell retired and President Obama named California Attorney General Kamala Harris
The Fortas Court faced a number of milestone cases. In 1971, they defended the freedom of the press in New York Times vs United States. In 1972 in Furman vs Georgia, they ruled that capitol punishment is too arbitrary and suffers from racial bias. In 1973's Row vs Wade, legalized abortion in the first trimester but left uncertain the question of regulations thereafter. Also in 1973, Miller vs California struck a blow at obscenity laws when it said that there were no exceptions to the First Amendment and required a civil judgment as the definition of obscenity. In 1974, a unanimous court in Nixon vs United States. ruled that executive privileged does not permit a president to withhold evidence in a criminal case 1976's Gregg vs Georgia the court set acceptable procedures for capital punishment. In 1976's Regents of the University of California vs Bakke in 1978, the court upheld racial quotes. The controversial case inspired the Civivil Rights Act of 1981, which banned racal quotes but acknowledged diversity as a goal and allowed race to continue as a consideration.
The Johnson Court two most notable cases were 1986's Bowers vs Hardwick , which struck down sodomy laws and 1992's Casey vs Planned Parenthood. The later case stuck down restrictions on abortions.
Under George Mitchell's leadership, the court handled many different issues. In 1995 Lopez vs United State, a case based on a federal law banning guns in public shoals, protected federal power In 1997, Clinton vs Jones a unanimous court ruled that a president is not immune from lawsuits. In 2000, Boy Scouts of American vs Dale found the Boy Scouts guilty of illegal discrimination because of their bans on gays. In December of that same year in Bush vs Gore, the court allowed the Florida recount to continue. The recount ended in Albert Gore's favor. In 2003 the Grutter vs Bollinger and Gratz vs Bollinger cases upheld affirmative action programs. 2007's Parents Involved in Community Schools vs Seattle School District 1 and Mereidtih vs Jefferson County School board upheld using racial classifications in classroom assignments . 2007's Gonzales vs Planned Parenthood Federation of America overturned a ban on partial birth abortion. 2008 District of Columbia vs Heller the court found that the 2nd Amendment did not provide an individual right to own a gun.2010 Citizens United vs Federal Election Commission the court upheld regulations on corporate political activity. The decision said coparartions do not enjoy first amendment rights . The 2013 term saw the court uphold the Voting Rights Act.The final dramatic act of the court that term established a constitutional right to marry. when it overruled California's Proposition 8. The Court also overruled DOMA and not only allowed gay married couples to receive federal benefits but required all states to recognize gay marriages

Last edited by Paul V McNutt; June 29th, 2013 at 03:42 PM..
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Old June 29th, 2013, 01:29 AM
Lord_Thrawn Lord_Thrawn is offline
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How did Gore win in 2000? His voting scheme means Bush wins; Bush's means Gore win. Or was that a typo? Also, your DOMA ruling is too broad: the case was only about federal, not state recognition. You are pulling a Taney (as in Dred Scott), and since about 3/4 of the states do not recognize gay marriage, you just ensured the Republicans will win in 2014 and 2016 with cries of judicial activism. Even Ron Paul will decry that the courts, as opposed to state legislatures or ballots, determined the definition.

Also you have Gore 2001-2009, apparently, since Gore in 2007 picks another Justice, yet Romney is President somehow 2005-2009, despite having no record to run on (Olympics and governor 2003-2004?). Either Gore loses in 2004, or Obama loses 2008. If you are just posting a political wish list isn't PolChat more appropriate?
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"I believe that this nation should commit itself... before this decade is out, of landing a man in America and returning him back safely to Ireland."

Last edited by Lord_Thrawn; June 29th, 2013 at 01:50 AM..
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Old June 29th, 2013, 02:07 AM
wargamer6 wargamer6 is offline
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Paragraphs, Paul.



Oh, and the ruling that 2nd Amendment = no individual right to firearms? Good luck with that.

Last edited by wargamer6; June 29th, 2013 at 02:12 AM..
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Old June 29th, 2013, 02:37 AM
Lord_Thrawn Lord_Thrawn is offline
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Oh, and the ruling that 2nd Amendment = no individual right to firearms? Good luck with that.

I missed that. Also, how does Bork, who happily carried out Nixon's firing of the special prosecutor investigating Nixon for Watergate, get past the Senate? Also, as his Solicitor General hearings, he supported poll taxes and rolling back civil rights (apparently, glanced at Wikipedia). Also, Justices seem to retire as to allow their ideology to replace them, unless forced to (like Sandra Day O'Connor).
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"I believe that this nation should commit itself... before this decade is out, of landing a man in America and returning him back safely to Ireland."
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Old June 29th, 2013, 02:40 AM
Will Kürlich Kerl Will Kürlich Kerl is offline
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How does a POD in the Supreme Court in the 1960s, which will make different decisions that will change people's reactions to those decisions, still has a Bush vs Gore election in 2000 that results into almost a tie in Florida?
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Old June 29th, 2013, 02:42 AM
wargamer6 wargamer6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Kürlich Kerl View Post
How does a POD in the Supreme Court in the 1960s, which will make different decisions that will change people's reactions to those decisions, still has a Bush vs Gore election in 2000 that results into almost a tie in Florida?
In a Paul McNutt TL, everything is different yet stays the same. Notice how Obama STILL ends up at POTUS?
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Old June 29th, 2013, 02:45 AM
Lord_Thrawn Lord_Thrawn is offline
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Because it is his political wish list, and thus more appropriate to PolChat. And we have 2 presidents 2005-2009 (guessing Romney is president to take the Great Recession hit).
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"I believe that this nation should commit itself... before this decade is out, of landing a man in America and returning him back safely to Ireland."
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Old June 29th, 2013, 02:59 AM
JVM JVM is offline
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Where are you guys getting a 2005-2009 Romney from? He's mentioned as 'outgoing President' in 2012-2013. It sounds to me like Romney succeeded Gore in 2008, only to be defeated by Obama in 2012.
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Old June 29th, 2013, 03:13 AM
Lord_Thrawn Lord_Thrawn is offline
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Where are you guys getting a 2005-2009 Romney from? He's mentioned as 'outgoing President' in 2012-2013. It sounds to me like Romney succeeded Gore in 2008, only to be defeated by Obama in 2012.
Looks like you are right and I am wrong. All other points still stand.
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"I believe that this nation should commit itself... before this decade is out, of landing a man in America and returning him back safely to Ireland."
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Old June 29th, 2013, 04:28 AM
JVM JVM is offline
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Originally Posted by Lord_Thrawn View Post
Looks like you are right and I am wrong. All other points still stand.
Oh sure, of course it's a crazy TL. It wouldn't be Paul V. McNutt otherwise :P
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Old June 29th, 2013, 07:01 AM
tiggerfan tiggerfan is offline
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When does the court declare all opposition to Obama illegal ?<smirkle>
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Old June 29th, 2013, 01:16 PM
Paul V McNutt Paul V McNutt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Thrawn View Post
I missed that. Also, how does Bork, who happily carried out Nixon's firing of the special prosecutor investigating Nixon for Watergate, get past the Senate? Also, as his Solicitor General hearings, he supported poll taxes and rolling back civil rights (apparently, glanced at Wikipedia). Also, Justices seem to retire as to allow their ideology to replace them, unless forced to (like Sandra Day O'Connor).
When he was nominated for the Supreme Court, Elliot Richardson testified on his behalf. Richardson said that he made a commitment during his confirmation hearings to resign rather then fire the special prosecutor. Bork who was in office before Watergate made no such commitment. Bork had no option other to obey a presidential order.
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Old June 29th, 2013, 01:19 PM
Paul V McNutt Paul V McNutt is offline
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Originally Posted by JVM View Post
Where are you guys getting a 2005-2009 Romney from? He's mentioned as 'outgoing President' in 2012-2013. It sounds to me like Romney succeeded Gore in 2008, only to be defeated by Obama in 2012.
Al Gore 2001 -2009
Mitt Romney 2009 - 2013
Barack Obama 2013 -

Gore wins when the recount goes longer. Romney wins following the economic collapse of 2008 but loses in 2012 because there is no stimulas package and the economy is much worse.
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Old June 29th, 2013, 01:20 PM
Paul V McNutt Paul V McNutt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Kürlich Kerl View Post
How does a POD in the Supreme Court in the 1960s, which will make different decisions that will change people's reactions to those decisions, still has a Bush vs Gore election in 2000 that results into almost a tie in Florida?
A series of different Supreme Court decisions doesn't change the 2000 elections.
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Old June 29th, 2013, 01:22 PM
Paul V McNutt Paul V McNutt is offline
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Oh, and the ruling that 2nd Amendment = no individual right to firearms? Good luck with that.[/QUOTE]

That was the standard interpretation until the SCOTUS ruled otherwise in 2008.
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Old June 29th, 2013, 01:56 PM
Lord_Thrawn Lord_Thrawn is offline
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1) I don't think the standard interpretation of the 2nd Amendment was no individual right to arms, as would not that mean no individual could own a gun or rifle? I think the standard was an individual right, but with limits. SCOTUS ruled basically no limits.

2) I bet you a month's worth of mod pay that Boy Scouts V Dale results in a Bush win, no recount. Why did Clinton support DOMA? His support indicates that there are costs with supporting gay rights that early. If a percentage or 2 swings to Bush's camp, no need for a recount. And Bush's "compassionate conservatism" plus SCOTUS picking on the poor Scouts (as it will be seen here).

3) Bork fired the guy investigating the President for criminal wrongdoing. The other 2 guys resigned rather than obey such a foul (and conflict of interest) order. The firing was ruled illegal, by the way, so Bork is ASB.

4) Romney is actually the best Republican for the recession. He has no permanent ideology, but loves solving problems. So there will be a stimulus package (Romney understands finance; if want a dumb President pick McCain), and we know in OTL an incumbent President with, say, 7% unemployment, can still win reelection.

I urge you to start a Paul V. McNutt thread in PolChat, as your political writings are not PC, WI, or even TL since it's (usually) just a single post, with no butterflies. Your posts outside of recent politics is quite good, so keep that up.

PS if 2000 like OTL, need a recount with Bush standards: how does a liberal court do that? A conservative (if ruled to continue recount) could say the standards are up to the state, but why would a liberal (and the rulings demand that) suddenly go states' rights?
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"I believe that this nation should commit itself... before this decade is out, of landing a man in America and returning him back safely to Ireland."
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Old June 29th, 2013, 02:29 PM
Paul V McNutt Paul V McNutt is offline
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2) I bet you a month's worth of mod pay that Boy Scouts V Dale results in a Bush win, no recount. Why did Clinton support DOMA? His support indicates that there are costs with supporting gay rights that early. If a percentage or 2 swings to Bush's camp, no need for a recount. And Bush's "compassionate conservatism" plus SCOTUS picking on the poor Scouts (as it will be seen here).


Interesting, I could see that happening.tThere would have been a angry reaction. tThose who would been celebrating would have been less motivated to vote.
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Old June 29th, 2013, 02:37 PM
Paul V McNutt Paul V McNutt is offline
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3) Bork fired the guy investigating the President for criminal wrongdoing. The other 2 guys resigned rather than obey such a foul (and conflict of interest) order. Thne firing was ruled illegal,
I idon't remember that being an issue during Bork's confirmation hearings.
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Old June 29th, 2013, 02:51 PM
Paul V McNutt Paul V McNutt is offline
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[QUOTE=Lord_Thrawn;7831110]Because it is his political wish list

I think one of the purposes of Ah is fixing the mistakes of the past. aI was discussing a football game with a friend of mine . wWe were playing Visitors, out arch rivals. wAt the two minute warning we had a narrow lead. tThe opposing quarter three a beautiful pass. wWhich was caught by a member of our team. oOnce in possession of the ball our team peddled around and ran up the clock.
I said it is too bad that the guy who caught the ball could not have run eighty yards for a touch down. mMy friends said don't be greedy. I saw that as an AHer non AHer culture divide.
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Old June 29th, 2013, 02:53 PM
phx1138 phx1138 is online now
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I'm thinking this belongs in ASB, not least because it's friend Paul again, but because Fortas overcomes a Senate filibuster for no reason beyond author fiat.
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