So, either he becomes way more tolerant and listens to the Dutch nobles or he manages to supress the revolt with military force earlier. What happens next, assuming he can keep control of the Netherlands? Would Spain stay longer in power with the rich Netherlands? Are they bound to revolt sooner or later?
WI: Philip II averts/supresses the Dutch Revolt
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If Protestantism would be tolerated: most Belgian cities become protestant, spreading north (as in OTL, but the southern parts also stay protestant without the Spanish enforcing Catholicism). I see Stadtholders ruling the low countries under a Spanish king. Maybe becoming independent at some point in time. I don’t think Napoleon would be butterflied away. After Waterloo the Netherlands become independent, without the tensions between Catholics and Protestants the United Kingdom of the Netherland would still be unified.
If the revolt is suppressed: at some point in time the dutch will revolt again. Many things can happened here: English involvement? Prussia? Would the Reformed tradition survive?
If the revolt is suppressed: at some point in time the dutch will revolt again. Many things can happened here: English involvement? Prussia? Would the Reformed tradition survive?
The Netherlands was some sort of independent nation, like Aragon. If the Bourbons still rise to power and centralize that would be the perfect time for the United Netherlands to secede and grab some colonies.
What about this TL?
1549 – The Pragmatic Sanction of 1549, promulgated by Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor, reorganizing the Seventeen Provinces.
1555 – Charles V abdicates in favour of his son, Philip II of Spain. Philip inherits the Seventeen Provinces. Philip and William, Prince of Orange (Charles personal favorite) become close friends (living in the Netherlands the first part of his reign).
1559 - Philip appoints William, Prince of Orange as the stadtholder of the provinces Holland, Zeeland and Utrecht. Margaret of Parma (Philips half-sister) is appointed governor of the Netherlands. William and Philip, both being very religious, agree that the inquisition policy isn’t very biblical.
1561 – William gains the stadtholdership of Franche-Comté and maries Anna of Saxony the same year.
1564 – Granvelle, prime minister to Margaret of Parma retires on the advice of his royal master. Without his policy of repression, the protestant minority enjoys more and more religious freedom.
1565 – William, the Confederacy of Noblemen and Margaret of Parma formally establish an end to the persecution of Protestants.
1566 - At the end of a pilgrimage from Hondschoote to Steenvoorde, the chapel of the Sint-Laurensklooster was defaced by a crowd who invaded the building. William and even protestant noblemen condemn the destructions. The (growing) protestant minority in the Netherlands fears new persecutions again and quickly take a stance against the violence. Iconoclastic Fury(Beeldenstorm) in the Low Countries is avoided.
1567 – Margret establishes the Council of religious freedom, dedicated to peacefully resolving religious issues.
1569 – Margret assassinated by a Catholic Frenchman, calling her pest on the whole of Christianity and the enemy of the human race. Philip, enraged, vows to bring an end to Catholic/Protestant hatred and finds an ally in William.
1549 – The Pragmatic Sanction of 1549, promulgated by Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor, reorganizing the Seventeen Provinces.
1555 – Charles V abdicates in favour of his son, Philip II of Spain. Philip inherits the Seventeen Provinces. Philip and William, Prince of Orange (Charles personal favorite) become close friends (living in the Netherlands the first part of his reign).
1559 - Philip appoints William, Prince of Orange as the stadtholder of the provinces Holland, Zeeland and Utrecht. Margaret of Parma (Philips half-sister) is appointed governor of the Netherlands. William and Philip, both being very religious, agree that the inquisition policy isn’t very biblical.
1561 – William gains the stadtholdership of Franche-Comté and maries Anna of Saxony the same year.
1564 – Granvelle, prime minister to Margaret of Parma retires on the advice of his royal master. Without his policy of repression, the protestant minority enjoys more and more religious freedom.
1565 – William, the Confederacy of Noblemen and Margaret of Parma formally establish an end to the persecution of Protestants.
1566 - At the end of a pilgrimage from Hondschoote to Steenvoorde, the chapel of the Sint-Laurensklooster was defaced by a crowd who invaded the building. William and even protestant noblemen condemn the destructions. The (growing) protestant minority in the Netherlands fears new persecutions again and quickly take a stance against the violence. Iconoclastic Fury(Beeldenstorm) in the Low Countries is avoided.
1567 – Margret establishes the Council of religious freedom, dedicated to peacefully resolving religious issues.
1569 – Margret assassinated by a Catholic Frenchman, calling her pest on the whole of Christianity and the enemy of the human race. Philip, enraged, vows to bring an end to Catholic/Protestant hatred and finds an ally in William.
The Netherlands, under Spanish rule, would perpetually have the French as an enemy, unlike in OTL where the two were allied until the 1670s. Perhaps the Dutch elites, tired of having to defend their southern provinces against French incursions, would seek out a rapprochement with France, and that in turn would spark tensions with Spain, leading to a revolt.
I think one of the best ways for Philip II to avoid the war is by not imposing such high taxes and tariffs on the Low Countries. Seeing as the region relied on trade for much of its economy, these high taxes - mainly used to pay for Spanish Wars, another issue of the taxes - put a major dent into the Dutch economy.
The religious issue was relatively important, but honestly it didn't affect much of the Netherlands except for Holland and to a degree Friesland. Most of the Netherlands weren't Protestant, I mean to this day the country is majority Catholic.
If any revolt were to occur, and Philip II hadn't imposed taxes so keeping it a mostly religious war, I believe the revolt would've been put down in a year, if that.
The religious issue was relatively important, but honestly it didn't affect much of the Netherlands except for Holland and to a degree Friesland. Most of the Netherlands weren't Protestant, I mean to this day the country is majority Catholic.
If any revolt were to occur, and Philip II hadn't imposed taxes so keeping it a mostly religious war, I believe the revolt would've been put down in a year, if that.
Protestantism during this time (1560s) was actually most concentrated in the southern provinces. The northern provinces actually didn't become predominantly Protestant until later, partly through an influx of refugees from the south. Protestants did become a majority nationwide, though (they were about 60% of the population a century ago), with Catholics heavily concentrated in North Brabant and Limburg, which were not originally part of the country and conquered at the end of the Eighty Years' War.
Just curious, how much help did the Dutch Protestants and rebels get from England in this period, IOTL?
A "tolerant" Spain would make HUGE butterflies in their external and internal policies, specially towards America.
I think so too. But I can't see how they can avoid the Dutch rebellion otherwise...
Well from my understanding Religion was only half of it. The other half was repressing the various ancient rights of the States that made up the Seventeen Provinces. Basically the centralization policies combined with the religious policies did Spain in. So if Philip handled the Netherlands the same way as Charles then we might see Spain being able to hold the Northern Netherlands.
This is not avoiding a rebellion, this is just letting the protestants go free.
hahahaThis is what happens in my head: Philip unites the Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox. America and the Ottomans are screwed
This is what happens in my head: Philip unites the Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox. America and the Ottomans are screwed
Awesome!
ASB but Awesome. Someone should write an ASB TL about that.