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  #2281  
Old September 3rd, 2013, 07:57 PM
Geon Geon is offline
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Revised Posting

Due to many comments and suggestions made by PM and here I am posting a revised copy of my latest update. Thanks to all of you for your input.

One big P.S. assume any reference in earlier postings to Manchu People's Republic is actually Manchurian People's Republic. I have already corrected the master copy but it would be difficult to go back and change earlier postings.

Geon

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The Manchurian People’s Republic:

The Soviet Army occupied all of former Japanese controlled Manchuria in 1945 following the surrender of Japan. The deal worked out between President Roosevelt before he died and Stalin gave Manchuria into the Soviet sphere of influence in return for Soviet cooperation in Operation Frankenstein. In 1946 at the Helsinki conference the status of Manchuria was formally accepted by both the Allied powers and the Soviet Union with the proviso that the Greater Republic of China would remain within the western sphere of influence. Soviet Premier Molotov was reluctant to agree to this but the Soviet Union was still recovering from internal turmoil and could ill afford making any advances beyond what it had already gained.

Mao Zedong was recognized as the first General Secretary of the Manchurian People’s Republic and he and his guerilla army were transported into the MPR. Mao was not content however with simply being premier of Manchuria; he had ambitions to be premier of all of China and Korea.

The Chairman would be helped in his plans by the actions of Korean president Sygman Rhee in 1948 when President Rhee unleashed a vicious purge of “communist” elements in Korea. Thousands died as a result of Rhee’s “death squads,” sent to hunt down those with leftist leanings. Thousands more including a very fanatic communist by the name of Kim Il-sung fled into the MPR. This gave Chairman Mao Zedong both the manpower and the motivation to consider a daring adventure against the Korean Republic. Mao reasoned that once he had the manpower and resources of the Korean peninsula behind him he could then begin building up for the inevitable war that would come against the Republic of China. He also believed, as it turned out incorrectly, that the U.S. would not intervene if he attacked Korea.

The MPR was able to benefit from its relationship with Moscow by securing a great deal of surplus war equipment as well as having several Soviet advisors on hand to train its fledgling army. Premier Molotov believed that keeping the West diverted in Asia might aid Soviet moves elsewhere in the world and agreed to Chairman Mao’s plans. The stage was set for the invasion of Korea in 1952.

As documented above the invasion of Korea turned into a full-fledged disaster. After the Yalu River Demonstration the remnants of the MPR invasion force fled back across the MPR/Korean border. The war also marked the end of the premiership of Mao Zedong. The new premier of the Soviet Union, Nikita Khrushchev, summoned the MPR premier to Moscow a month after the Korean War ended for discussions. On his way to Moscow chairman Mao’s plane crashed in central Russia killing all aboard. To this day the cause of the crash is unknown and there is circumstantial evidence that Khrushchev had arranged for the death of Mao. Papers released recently indicate Khrushchev believed Mao to be too volatile and too adventurous.

Mao’s successor was Kim Il-Sung. It would be learned from defectors from the MPR much later that Kim came to power by a coup taking over from the Chinese communists on the central committee. Kim would spend the next ten years rooting out enemies to his rule in violent purges. Ironically the Chinese communists found themselves relegated to second class citizens in their own country by the Korean communists who had taken over the government.

General Secretary Kim was able to build a “cottage” armaments industry and began reequipping the MPR army for what he believed would be his inevitable “return to Korea.” Mindful of the U.S. nuclear capability he also began development on his own nuclear bomb program. Domestic spending in the MPR suffered accordingly under Chairman Kim’s rule and by 1962 the MPR was facing severe famine among its civilian population as well as growing internal unrest.

Both Washington and Moscow were alarmed both at the rearmament of the MPR and its attempts to gain nuclear weapons. Moscow especially was not comfortable with a potential nuclear neighbor on its borders. Thus in 1963 another coup occurred within the MPR and Kim Il-sung and his “Korean Cohort” as it was called was overthrown and an ethnic Chinese communist leader again ran the MPR. Chairman Zhou-en-Lai* quickly purged all the Korean elements from the country. Kim Il-sung it was learned would later die under unknown circumstances in a prison camp within sight of his former home of Korea.

General Secretary Zhou succeeded in putting the economy of the MPR on a more even keel. A great deal of industrial production that had been focused on military armaments was switched to domestic needs. In addition Premier Zhou ordered the discontinuation of the country’s nuclear program. It is believed he did so at the “request:” of Moscow in return for their aiding his and the ethnic Chinese communists with him in their return to power.

Under Chairman Zhou’s leadership the MPR became if not prosperous at least able to feed and clothe its citizens especially with the help of imports from the Soviet Union which was its greatest trading partner.

Premier Zhou died in 1979-incidentally being the only leader of the MPR to die a natural death while in office. Chairman Zhou’s place was taken by General Secretary Chung-li-Kai* who was a very rabid second generation follower of the late chairman Mao. Chairman Chung was determined to reunite all of China once and for all under the banner of communism and so began to prepare the MPR army for an invasion of the Greater Chinese Republic.

In May of 1981 that invasion began in what came to be called the Manchurian/Chinese Border Incursion. Chairman Chung was uncertain how the greater powers would react to his invasion plans. So, he decided that a group of “renegade,” army divisions would stage an incursion southward to test the waters. If things started to go badly for the incursion forces then Chairman Chung would simply claim that a group of renegade officers was responsible and those officers would be shot; if there was no reaction from the other world powers Chairman Chung would send the bulk of his forces across the border in a full scale invasion.

The Border Incursion began well enough with several divisions of the “renegade”, army forces advancing deep into the Republic’s territory. The Soviet Union and other Warsaw Pact nations supported the effort with supplies at the Manchurian sea ports and overland. But then things quickly went bad as an alarmed Japan along with the U.S. sent naval assets to the area. Officially the U.S. 8th Fleet was in the area for “war games,” but there was no doubt that their true reason for being there was to ensure that further shipments to the Manchurian People’s Republic could be stopped. The Japanese were less covert about their activities and launched a full-fledged blockade of Manchurian ports with their small navy. Soviet and Warsaw Pact freighters were turned back if they were found to have any supplies of a military nature on board. It is interesting to note that whenever a Japanese ship stopped Soviet freighters a U.S. warship always “happened” to be in the area. In addition in the 2nd week of the U.S. war exercise a flight of carrier based fighter-bombers was launched over the invasion zone. Now there could be no doubt that the U.S. was making a point. At the time that the “flyover” was taking place a note was delivered through a neutral nation to Chairman Chung. This time the planes were not armed, the next time they definitely would be.

Chairman Chung got the message and knew his plans had failed. He “reasserted” authority over the renegade divisions and had new commanders take control. The divisions then retreated back across the Manchurian/Chinese border. Almost all of the army commanders who had taken part in the Incursion were shot. Two weeks after the Incursion Chung would also be dead, shot by one of the very army commanders whose execution he had ordered. That army commander, Chiang-Lai Wu*, would become the next premier of the MPR.

Since 1981 the MPR has been considered the “bad boy” of Asia. Its nuclear program now on again now off depending on who is in power is still a worry to the powers around it. In addition there have been several border incidents both with Korea and China during the past 32 years. No formal peace has ever been signed with Korea nor has any formal agreement been made with China. Often bellicose statements come out of the MPR triumphantly proclaiming the future of a Greater Asia, united under the “Manchurian” banner. Such statements cause chills to run up and down the spines not only of the leaders of the Greater Chinese Republic, but also of the Korean Republic and Japan where memories of the Greater Asian Co Prosperity Sphere and what Japan did to try to achieve that dream are still fresh. If the MPR can be credited in doing any one good thing it is that it succeeded by its very existence in ending the post-war enmity between Korea, China, and Japan and fostering a new era of cooperation and even friendship between those nations.
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  #2282  
Old September 3rd, 2013, 08:11 PM
Michel Van Michel Van is offline
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ups
how to deal with this for Wiki ?
can i make:
156 A old version
156 B corrected version
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  #2283  
Old September 3rd, 2013, 08:14 PM
Geon Geon is offline
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Originally Posted by Michel Van View Post
ups
how to deal with this for Wiki ?
can i make:
156 A old version
156 B corrected version
I'd go with the corrected version for the Wiki. You can add an extra link to the original if you like.

Geon
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  #2284  
Old September 3rd, 2013, 08:55 PM
naraht naraht is offline
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Strong Manchurian PR?

(First question, Greater Chinese Republic or Greater Republic of China?)

I can imagine the Manchurian PR having a chance against Korea, but to invade the GCR? The GCR must have ten times the population of the MPR. Is the capital of the GCR Beijing (close to the MPR border)?

Two questions, is the GCR on the UN Security Council (I really can't imagine why it wouldn't be) and secondly is it a Nuclear power by 1981?
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  #2285  
Old September 3rd, 2013, 08:59 PM
Garrison Garrison is offline
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Originally Posted by naraht View Post
(First question, Greater Chinese Republic or Greater Republic of China?)

I can imagine the Manchurian PR having a chance against Korea, but to invade the GCR? The GCR must have ten times the population of the MPR.
Probably convinced themselves there would be a massive uprising to overthrown the yoke of capitalist oppression...
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  #2286  
Old September 4th, 2013, 12:00 AM
SactoMan101 SactoMan101 is offline
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I'll say this: the MPR in this timeline would not be an easy country to collapse on its own. Unlike North Korea in the OTL, the MPR has access to plentiful excellent farmland and coal fields, which means food and fuel shortages are less of a problem.
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  #2287  
Old September 4th, 2013, 01:24 AM
cubefreak123 cubefreak123 is offline
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Originally Posted by naraht View Post
(First question, Greater Chinese Republic or Greater Republic of China?)

I can imagine the Manchurian PR having a chance against Korea, but to invade the GCR? The GCR must have ten times the population of the MPR. Is the capital of the GCR Beijing (close to the MPR border)?
Adding onto what Garrison said, Manchuria was pretty heavily industrialized. Plus they probably think that if Japan was able to do it (and they were heavily outnumbered) then they can pull it off too.
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  #2288  
Old September 4th, 2013, 08:00 AM
Tsar of New Zealand Tsar of New Zealand is online now
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Originally Posted by SactoMan101 View Post
I'll say this: the MPR in this timeline would not be an easy country to collapse on its own. Unlike North Korea in the OTL, the MPR has access to plentiful excellent farmland and coal fields, which means food and fuel shortages are less of a problem.
Just what we need ITTL, a North Korea-analogue that's not just any tinpot dictatorship, but one that's actually capable of doing more than forced-labour manufacture of terrifically shoddy goods
Ironic though how it's almost more isolated than 'our' NK - at least OTL it has the halfhearted support of the PRC, in much the same manner as a disappointed mother supports her deadbeat dropout son-in-law
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  #2289  
Old September 4th, 2013, 11:02 AM
PaulJones202718 PaulJones202718 is online now
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Premier Molotov? Something appears to have happened that needs to be expanded on!
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  #2290  
Old September 4th, 2013, 12:11 PM
MonsooN MonsooN is offline
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Premier Molotov? Something appears to have happened that needs to be expanded on!
It's Geon's way of keeping us hungry for more!

Interesting update, Geon. I'm really looking forward to hearing what will happen in the rest of the world.
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  #2291  
Old September 4th, 2013, 01:08 PM
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Premier Molotov? Something appears to have happened that needs to be expanded on!
Stalin got offed!

HOORAY!
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  #2292  
Old September 4th, 2013, 01:49 PM
naraht naraht is offline
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
Probably convinced themselves there would be a massive uprising to overthrown the yoke of capitalist oppression...
Yeah, but would the GCR need US help in dealing with the MPR? This would be sort of like Armenia invading Turkey today. Yeah, the rest of NATO should be involved but the Turks might go "We got this".
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  #2293  
Old September 4th, 2013, 05:44 PM
LeX LeX is offline
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"Premier" could be Molotov, "General Secretary" might well still be Stalin.
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I didn't think things had gotten this bad with those Russia vs. EU protests.
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  #2294  
Old September 4th, 2013, 06:00 PM
Garrison Garrison is offline
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Yeah, but would the GCR need US help in dealing with the MPR? This would be sort of like Armenia invading Turkey today. Yeah, the rest of NATO should be involved but the Turks might go "We got this".
+


Well it is at the time under the leadership of the Nationalists famous for their corruption and ineptitude in WWII...
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  #2295  
Old September 4th, 2013, 07:11 PM
Michel Van Michel Van is offline
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Next art Work

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  #2296  
Old September 4th, 2013, 07:11 PM
Geon Geon is offline
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Update

Here is an update on the Greater Chinese Republic. This time because of all the trouble with names in the previous update I tried to avoid using them!

Enjoy!

Geon

P.S. Great work on the portrait of Daryl, Michel, I like it a lot!
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Greater Republic of China:

The Greater Republic of China was born in January, 1946 with the final withdrawal of communist troops and insurgents to the Manchurian People’s Republic. General Chiang Kai-shek became the leader of the new nation.

From 1946 until 1950 the story of the GRC was one of repression and poverty. Industry in the coastal areas of China had been largely destroyed during the war either by combat, sabotage by insurgents, or by the Japanese themselves during their final withdrawals. For the first few years following the war mass starvation threatened most of the country and government ineptitude only added to the suffering. It was later learned that humanitarian shipments of grain sent from the U.S. and elsewhere were often kept from the neediest areas because of suspected “communist activity,” in the area and a fear that the grain would fall into guerrilla hands. Thousands died from starvation or hunger related diseases simply because the government didn’t trust the very people that the food was meant for.
In addition were the roving squads of General Chiang’s internal security forces who were determined to root out any remaining communist “sleeper cells.” From the moment that the GCR was formed General Chiang Kai-shek warned that the communist forces were still plotting to seize the remainder of China using the MPR as a base. As a result many squads of internal security troops launched a reign of terror throughout the countryside in some cases razing whole villages to the ground for the reason that there might be “communist cells,” in them.

The U.S. continued to be an ally of the GCR throughout this period. But patience with that nation was wearing thin. On Capitol Hill in Washington there were loud calls for President Truman to cut off all aid to China. However Truman felt that only by maintaining aid to China was there any hope in trying to curb the excesses of General Chiang.

Finally in 1950 the people had had enough. In a popular uprising General Chiang Kai-shek was overthrown and a new provisional government established which within a year had set up China’s first democratically elected assembly – the Grand Assembly. As for General Chiang Kai-shek, in deference to his leadership through World War II he was allowed to retire to an estate set aside for him on the island of Taiwan where he would remain until his death in 1970.

The new Chinese government began a program of reestablishing agriculture and industry in the GCR. Over the next ten years China would see an amazing transformation. By 1961 China had gone from a rice importer to one of the big rice exporters in the world. Chinese industry also made a slow comeback and the GNP by 1961 was higher then it had ever been in China’s modern history.

In addition the Chinese military began to slowly modernize. By 1970 the Chinese boasted one of the most modern armies in Asia. Likewise her air force was slowly modernizing and would by 1980 be the largest and most up-to-date in Asia.

The quality of the GCR armed forces would be tested with the Manchurian/Chinese Border Incursion of 1981. Caught off guard the forces of GCR were forced to fall back at first, however even as the United States and Japan moved to blockade MPR ports the GCR armed forces launched massive counterattacks. The MPR divisions were stopped in their tracks and a week later the U.S. “flyover” convinced the MPR to withdraw.

The Incursion along with constant unsettling news from the north that the MPR was still working on a nuclear program caused the GCR to pursue its own nuclear program and in 1983 the GCR detonated its first fission bomb in the Gobi desert. While not having anywhere near the stockpile of nuclear weapons that many of its fellow members in the so-called nuclear club have the GCR had managed to build a nuclear arsenal which it believes is sufficient to keep the MPR from trying anything in the future-especially since the MPR was the victim of the world’s first use of nuclear weapons on the battlefield.

In foreign affairs the GCR has remained a staunch U.S. ally over the past 68 years. The prime minister of China allowed her nation to be used as a naval/air base for the U.S. during the Kamchatka naval base crisis of 1978. In addition Chinese troops guarded the Kuwaiti oil fields during the first Gulf War in 1991. And like the Japanese above Chinese naval assets sailed off of Somalia to help deal with the pirate menace during the late 90’s and into the early part of the 2000s.

During the Border Incursion of 1981 the Japanese navy aided in blockading the Manchurian ports helping to bring an end to the MPR’s military actions in China. This is considered by many historians as the first step toward the establishment of better relations between Japan and China. Over the last 32 years the two nations have begun to work together on many different projects. In 1995 Japan offered to pay an “equitable sum,” to the families of Chinese “comfort women” who had been forced to “service,” Japanese soldiers during World War II. The “equitable sum” turned out to be (in terms of U.S. dollars) $500,000,000 to be divided equally among the survivors and their families. Accompanying this was a written formal apology from the Japanese government addressed to each survivor. Slowly but sure the crimes of the past are being redressed in the meantime the Greater Chinese Republic, Japan, and the Republic of Korea are all in negotiation over a possible Northern Asian Free Trade Sphere as well as considering a number of mutual defense treaties. As a sign of the growing cooperation and even friendship between these two former enemies Japan and China have even announced that one of the three astronauts that will be going on the first Japanese lunar expedition will be a Chinese astronaut. As the present president of China would put it at the announcement in 2012, it is time to bury the past not in the dust of the Earth but in the dust of the Moon.

Last edited by Geon; September 4th, 2013 at 07:13 PM.. Reason: Adding P.S.
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  #2297  
Old September 4th, 2013, 07:38 PM
Michel Van Michel Van is offline
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Originally Posted by Geon View Post
P.S. Great work on the portrait of Daryl, Michel, I like it a lot!
THX, daryl was the toilsome part of sketch, to match his character describe in the Post

on Greater Republic of China, they will not deal with Communist problem in north Vietnam ?
(it was consider an renegade province, establish in former ming dynasty china)
but even with not invasion the Vietnam war runs complete different here. (if it happen here)

in OTL the soviet supplies were moved by train true China People’s Republic, to north Vietnam.
here Greater Republic of China, is ally of USA so vietcong will have hell of problems to get supply and get regular massive visit by Chinese Troops...
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  #2298  
Old September 4th, 2013, 08:41 PM
LeX LeX is offline
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Good update overall, but I'm a bit confused at why the ROC found need to change its name.
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I didn't think things had gotten this bad with those Russia vs. EU protests.
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  #2299  
Old September 4th, 2013, 08:56 PM
PaulJones202718 PaulJones202718 is online now
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Good update overall, but I'm a bit confused at why the ROC found need to change its name.
Possibly to remind the Manchurians that their independence is an anomaly that is one day going to be corrected.
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  #2300  
Old September 4th, 2013, 09:17 PM
RamscoopRaider RamscoopRaider is online now
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In addition Chinese troops guarded the Kuwaiti oil fields during the first Gulf War in 1991.
There had better be a good explanations for this that takes into account the sheer number of butterflies introduced
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