No Maccabee success

[Keenir]

What if the efforts of the Maccabee revolt had been for naught, all failing in the end?

thoughts?

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by Keenir

What if the efforts of the Maccabee revolt had been for naught, all failing in the end?

You would not have an independent kingdom for Herod the Great to seize control of. Of course the romans could still give him a crown where they take the land from the Seleucis or Ptolemies.

[Grimm Reaper]

This would be virtually impossible. The Seleucids were doomed by that point. At the time that Matthias and his five sons began the revolt, the much larger and wealthier Partia(Persia) was already in revolt and the results in that province were much more important to the Seleucids.

Especially as the Seleucid failiure left a rebellious former province free and independent and both physically larger and militarily more powerful than their former masters.

An irony is that had Matthias sold out and his sons waited twenty or so years, no revolt would have been needed as no Seleucids would have been left to worry about.

[Faeelin]

Originally Posted by Grimm Reaper

This would be virtually impossible. The Seleucids were doomed by that point. At the time that Matthias and his five sons began the revolt, the much larger and wealthier Partia(Persia) was already in revolt and the results in that province were much more important to the Seleucids.

Actually, the largest and wealthiest part of the Empire was Mesopotamia, which seems to have fallen a few years later. ( Samarkand to Sardis gives the date that Mesopotamia irrevocably fell as 127 BC).

The devastation of Judaea seems unlikely to last; but perhaps, if the Jews did become integrated into the Hellenistic World, like their Phoenecian neighbors, perhaps Judaism becomes a missionary religion earlier? (By Judaism I may mean an offshoot, like OTL Christianity).

[Count Dearborn]

A much earlier Disporia?

[Grimm Reaper]

I can't be certain as to wealth but Mesopotamia was comparable to Iraq while Parthia was Iran, so I know which one was larger.

As to the diaspora, how about the other way? Without the example of the Maccabees in what appeared to be a heroic but doomed struggle but was actually certain to win in the long run, do the Jews tread more lightly around the Roman Empire?

[Faeelin]

Originally Posted by Grimm Reaper

I can't be certain as to wealth but Mesopotamia was comparable to Iraq while Parthia was Iran, so I know which one was larger.

Alaska is larger than New York. Which is a wealthier state?

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by Grimm Reaper

As to the diaspora, how about the other way? Without the example of the Maccabees in what appeared to be a heroic but doomed struggle but was actually certain to win in the long run, do the Jews tread more lightly around the Roman Empire?

The crushing of the First Revolt followed by the demolition of the Temple did not stop the Revolt under Kokhba. When your ancestors escaped slavery to go to a Promised Land, some of you are going to take on any power or dominion.