Ferguson fails at Manchester United

Following the news today that Sir Alex Ferguson is to retire as Manchester united Boss, what would have happended if if he been sacked in 1990, as it looked almost certain back then?

Fergie Fails Part One
It's Sunday January 7th 1990, and Manchester United traveled to the City Ground, Nottingham for a FA Cup 3rd round tie against Nottingham Forest.
The pressure had been building on Alex Ferguson for the past few months, he had been in charge for just over three years, and still have not won a Trophy. They had finished second in the First Division in his first full-season in charge in 1987-88 but it was nine point behind Liverpool. The following season was a dispointment with a final place of 11th only twelve points above relegation, and being knocked out in the 6th round of the FA Cup at home by Nottingham Forest.
Now United had to face Forest once again in the FA Cup United's form in the First Division had been poor, only six days before they had drawn 0-0 at home to Queens Park Rangers leaving them in 15th place in the table a mere two points above the last relegation place held by Manchester City.
The newspapers in the build up to the game shown live on BBC1 is all about this game being "Fergie's last Stand" lose and he will be sacked.
It's a poor game, Ferguson sends on youngester Mark Robins who misses a great chance to win the game. The game ends 0-0.
In the replay three days later, United lose lose 2-0, and within minutes of the final whistle its announced that United have sacked Ferguson.

More to come....

Marky Bunny said:

More to come....

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I await with interest.

I assume no Man United dominance over the next twenty years of the English game, but what else? The team that won the FA Youth Cup (Beckham, Giggs, Scholes, the Nevilles et al.) is still in the works, and should provide a backbone for a formidable team, but will it stay together?

While I wasn't old enough to witness it first hand, I've always had the impression that part of Liverpool's fall from the top was the effect Hillsborough had on Dalglish. While he's still there at the PoD, will the butterflies keep Kenny there, or change the replacement? And where does the recently departed Ferguson go next?

I can still see the Premier League forming, as Sky need to use it to gain a market in the country, but wither then?

Also, on a personal note, I do hope the fact that Fergie is unlikely to be the all consuming behemoth he is in OTL will allow the press and the public to realise just how great some of the things Sir Bobby Robson achieved were. Obviously, his career may well take a different path, but there are many who consider themselves to know a lot about the beautiful game who are surprised by the full list of trophies Bobby collected while travelling the continent...

Fergie Fails Part two
The United's board first choice for the job is Aston Villa Manager Graham taylor but with Villa going for the title, that was a no-go. The other obvious choices were two young and up-coming Managers, Steve Coppell at Crystal Palace and Oldham's Joe Royle, it was decided to wait until the end of the season to make a long term appointment.
Instead to the shock of the United fan's it was announced on Friday January 12th just says after Ferguson's sacking that United had appointed former Southampton Manager Lawrie McMenemy as Manager until the end of the season. He had been out of work since his sacking from Sunderland in April 1987, with the team on the way down to the Third Division, but he had always been held in high reguard by the United board, and had been their number one choice to replace Dave Sexton in the summer of 1981 before Ron Atkinson had been given the job and was a long standing friend of Bobby Charlton.
The results that followed were not good, with a home defeat by Derby County in his first game in charge and a live TV defeat by Norwich City leaving united on the brink of the relegation zone.
The Manchester Derby game with City on February 3rd was a relegation six pointer, but it was City who won 1-0 and complete a League double to leave United out of the relegation zone on goal difference only from Millwall, and it was to the Den that United travelled next a week later and managed to come away with a 1-1 draw . A 1-0 defeat at Chelsea plunged United into the drop-zone for the first time.
The home game with fellow strugglers Luton Town on March 3rd was a must win game and United finally got a win under McMenemy a 4-1 win and a goaless draw at home to Everton kept United right in the fight ,but the live TV game with Liverpool saw a 2-1 defeat and United were now in real trouble and 3rd from bottom and three days later a defeat at Sheffield Wednsday managed by Ron Atkinson kept them mired in the bottom three.A point was gained with a 0-0 draw at Southampton followed by a 3-0 win over Coventry City.

Notes
The only results I have changed from OTL are the Manchester City game which was a 1-1 draw, Millwall which a 2-1 win and Southampton which was 2-0 win. All the other results are as per OTL with Fergie in charge.

Part Three coming up soon

I didn't see Lawrie being the man for the job, but it all looks fairly plausible. How far are you planning to go with this?

I will see, I have Fergie's future planned out, he returns back to Scottish football later on in 1990!
Lawrie McMenemy is only Manager until the end of the season, I don't want to spoil United's New Manager or if they get relegated!!

Geordie said:

I await with interest.

I assume no Man United dominance over the next twenty years of the English game, but what else? The team that won the FA Youth Cup (Beckham, Giggs, Scholes, the Nevilles et al.) is still in the works, and should provide a backbone for a formidable team, but will it stay together?

While I wasn't old enough to witness it first hand, I've always had the impression that part of Liverpool's fall from the top was the effect Hillsborough had on Dalglish. While he's still there at the PoD, will the butterflies keep Kenny there, or change the replacement? And where does the recently departed Ferguson go next?

I can still see the Premier League forming, as Sky need to use it to gain a market in the country, but wither then?

Also, on a personal note, I do hope the fact that Fergie is unlikely to be the all consuming behemoth he is in OTL will allow the press and the public to realise just how great some of the things Sir Bobby Robson achieved were. Obviously, his career may well take a different path, but there are many who consider themselves to know a lot about the beautiful game who are surprised by the full list of trophies Bobby collected while travelling the continent...

Click to expand...

The Premier League still happens and there will be a Fergie like Manager, in the PL.
Agree about Bobby Robson, the record of other Managers like Bob Paisley, John Lyall, and Ron Atkinson have been forgotten!!

Marky Bunny said:

I will see, I have Fergie's future planned out, he returns back to Scottish football later on in 1990!

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I thought he might. I'm not asking for spoilers, more wondering out loud here: I wonder when (if?) Fergie will come back to England? Or maybe a Robson style trip overseas, once he's resurrected his name in Scotland?

Marky Bunny said:

Lawrie McMenemy is only Manager until the end of the season, I don't want to spoil United's New Manager or if they get relegated!!

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That's fine by me. I would think the two are connected. While the history and allure of Old Trafford might be tempting to a lot of managers, some of the lustre will be lacking if they're in the Second Division.

If they survive, and Taylor can be tempted (at the end of the season, if he thinks that he can do nothing more with Villa), this throws the whole of OTL out the window even more. If Taylor moves before it's discovered Robson is leaving England, who replaces Bobby? On the other hand, if the speculation means Taylor feels the need to recommit to Villa by publicly extending his contract, then he still can't go for the England job...

Marky Bunny said:

The Premier League still happens and there will be a Fergie like Manager, in the PL.
Agree about Bobby Robson, the record of other Managers like Bob Paisley, John Lyall, and Ron Atkinson have been forgotten!!

Click to expand...

I do hope this Alt-Fergie doesn't have quite the same love of his mind games. This season's sniping at Benitez brings back the fact that he can be as spiteful in victory as in defeat. I think the man has revolutionised English football in many good way,s but there are more than a few negatives too.

Yeha, but everything before 1992 has been somewhat erased from the records by the media.*

Admittedly, being born in 1987, I only know of the time before the Premier League and all the changes due to reading, but I try to discern the truth from the rose tinted spectacles...

*And even in other divisions. There was a ridiculous statisitic after Howard Wilkinson got Sunderland relegated with a record low points total. They were promoted next season, and started the following season in the Premier rather poorly. The media started to spout that the Mackems hadn't won in the Premier League for 22 months or some such BS. totally ignoring the fact that they'd not been there for 15 or so of those months, and had won the league below in that time....

Fergie Fails Part Three-Away from United

Following their FA Cup Third round replay win over Manchester United, Brian Clough fancied his chances of winning the FA Cup for the first time, in the fourth round they beat Hereford United 1-0 away, before again facing tricky away ties in the 5th and 6th rounds beating Second Division sides Newcastle United and Sheffield United, before setting up a semi-final with another Second Division side Oldham United at Maine Road they won the replay 2-1 after drawing the first game 3-3 and that Brian Clough to his first FA Cup Final as Manager to face Steve Coppell's Crystal Palace. After a classic 3-3 draw in the first game, Forest won the replay thank's to Stuart Pearce's free-kick in the second half.
Forest had already won the League Cup the previous month beating Oldham AThletic (yes them again) interviewed after the FA Cup victory, Brian Clough gave a TV interview with seemed to show that he was planning to retire after winning the one Trophy that had until then alluded him.

Fergie Fails-Part Four- United escape the drop-just!

The win 3-0 win over Coventry City still left United only out of the relegation zone on goal differance only. The next league game away to QPR saw a 2-1 win and suddenly hope that the drop to Division Two could be prevented. A mid-week 2-0 win over title chasing Aston Villa left United on 39 pts with four games left, it had been the best run since McMenemy took over, a draw and three straight wins, but they were not safe yet. A 2-1 defeat by Tottenham Hotspur, was followed by a nevery 0-0 draw at home to Wimbledon in which McMenemy gave a league debut to Australian keeper Mark Bosnich, two days later Bosnich played again and had a nigtmare as United fell 4-0 away at Nottingham Forest once again, leaving them 4th from bottom only on goal difference from Luton Town, with Sheffield Wednesday three points better off than United.
Simply with Millwall and Charlton already doomed, one from Luton, Manchester United, and Sheffield Wednesday would go down.
In the end United stayed up thanks to a late goal from Mark Hughes as they beat Charlton 1-0 at old Trafford, whilst Luton beat Derby 3-2 to save themselves, they were thankfull when Sheffield Wednesday lost 3-0 at home to Nottingham Forest thus they were relegated and United finished 5th bottom in 16th place with 43 pts.

Safe United with the help of McMenemy started to look for a long term appointment to the Old Trafford Hotseat.

Notes
All United's results as given above are as per OTL, as well as Mark Bosnich making his debut in goal.

Fergie Fails-Part Five A search for a Saviour

In the days after Manchester United's narrow escape from relegation the board started to look for a new Manager. They knew that the youth system and scouting system which Alex Ferguson had re-built would start to bear dividends in the next few seasons, but at the moment, they needed a new man.
Martin Edwards the Chairman asked Lawrie McMenemy to stay on as General Manager and advise the board on the new manager. The two front-runners were Crystal Palace's Steve Coppell, Coppell had been a United favourite as a player and had done an excellent job at Crystal Palace, whilst the other was Joe Royle, Royle had been Manager at Second Division Oldham Athletic since 1982, and taken them to the League Cup Final the previous season as well as the FA Cup semi-final. They had just missed out on promotion to the first Division and Royle had achieved much on a small playing budget. Royle had turned down the chance to move to Manchester City the previous December
Palace rejected United's approach for Coppell, making Royle the clear favourite, Oldham gave United permission to speak to Royle, but he returned to Oldham refusing to say if had been offered the job or not saying "it wasn't the right time".
McMenemy suggested Graham Taylor but Villa Chairman Doug Ellis made it clear he would not give permission for an approach, then McMenemy suggested former United player Joe Jordan. Jordan, had played for United from 1977 to 1981, before moving to Italy and then he returned to England to play for McMenemy at Southampton. In 1987 he moved to Bristol City first as player-coach the taking over as Manager in March 1988, he lead the team to the Third Division play-offs that year losing in a re-played Final to Walsall. The following season he took Bristol City to the semi-finals of the League Cup as a Third Division side losing 2-1 over two legs to Nottingham Forest. In the past season he taken City to the FA Cup 5th round after knocking out Chelsea 3-1 in the fourth round and they had just gained promotion back to the Second Division for the first time in a decade finishing as runners-up.
Bristol City gave United permission to talk to him he accepted and two days later Joe Jordan was appointed Manchester United's new manager.

Notes
In OTL Joe Jordan left Bristol City on September 10th 1990 to take over at Scottish Premier Division side Hearts. Now with Jordan as Manchester United Manager, I wonder who could take over at Hearts instead

Very intresting,curious to see hows going to be this TL Fergie, might be Sir Bobby but his health might not be up to lasting till 2013. Are Newcastle in the first divison?

Hmmm... I wonder how this affects other teams.. how about Leeds and Blackburn? Cantona?

Shame.. Graham Taylor managing Man Utd would have been interesting.

DocU said:

A successful Hearts in the 90s? I'd be happy with that

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You might just get that
To be fair looking at the 3 seasons Joe Jordan had at Hearts 1990-1993 he actually did a decent job, but this is will be a little better!

Alternative scenario January 1990

The early nighties had seen a huge success for the 'favourite sons' or young managers who had recently retired as players.With the success of Kenny Dalglish at Liverpool and the return of George Graham and Terry Venebles at Arsenal and Spurs respectively, I think the United board might have given in to the fans wishes and turned to Bryan Robson as acting manager. Then in the summer the shortlist would have been Bryan Robson (depending on results), Steve Coppell and Graham Taylor. With Taylor taking the England job and United looking from January 1990 United appoint his predecessor Bobby Robson with Bryan Robson assisting

Soccer Zombie sighted. Red Card issued.