An earlier American Navy

[Faeelin]

Okay, as a few people know, I've been puttering about a timeline/story in which napoleon leads the american revolution in the 1790's on a merry conquest of the americas. (It's silly, but it was partly written as a response to "let's break up america", which is fashionable).

Other idea: No Jeffersonian election:

"With Jefferson tending the Farm and spending even more time
with the mistresses, Than goofing up the USN as President, that won't
happen, and Prez. Adams & Benjamin Stoddert(First Sec. of the
Navy) and had big plans- And got Congress in 1799 to
authorize $1 million for 2 drydocks(US had none)plus multiple
new Navy Yards and (6) 74gun SOL plus all those Humphreys frigates
that were planned to be built past the few that were OTL, with
a total of 24 super frigates and 12 SOL on the USN wishlist.

That would put the new USN in among the top 5 naval powers,
with *good* relations with the UK. Things went downhill with TJ
at the helm with US/UK relations, as well, besides gutting the Navy

No pressing of US merchantmen, and no UK gunrunning to the Indians

Expect a Land Grab on French territory in the west, as soon as that
Continental system is put into effect, and probably Andy Jackson
hangs Frenchmen in place of Brits if they are behind arming the Indians"

Mike on SHWI.

Hamilton wanted to support the creation of american republics, as well.

Say the federalists win in 1800, and the US establishes a history this early of being a great naval power. Effects?

[Grey Wolf]

How about bankruptcy ? Or states rebellion against the Congress ?

I have been reading the Osprey book on the US heavy frigates and its very clear that it follows a pattern of
threat = funds
threat goes away = no funds
Thats why some ships get built, others get mothballed for many years until a new threat comes along

Now, we are postulating an attempt to get a unified decision to continue expansion when there is no threat. Congress at this time seems to be the states rights idea, i.e. if there is no need for federal action then none should be taken. Its not as it is now where everyone is bought and sold

To get a larger US navy IMHO you need a larger and continuing threat

Grey Wolf

[Faeelin]

Originally Posted by Grey Wolf

How about bankruptcy ? Or states rebellion against the Congress ?

I have been reading the Osprey book on the US heavy frigates and its very clear that it follows a pattern of
threat = funds
threat goes away = no funds
Thats why some ships get built, others get mothballed for many years until a new threat comes along

Now, we are postulating an attempt to get a unified decision to continue expansion when there is no threat. Congress at this time seems to be the states rights idea, i.e. if there is no need for federal action then none should be taken. Its not as it is now where everyone is bought and sold

To get a larger US navy IMHO you need a larger and continuing threat

Grey Wolf

So your'e saying the person wasn't right when they declared that funding was in place, and you do not feel a major war with a european superpower over louisiana is not an imminent threat?

[Faeelin]

Originally Posted by Grey Wolf

How about bankruptcy ? Or states rebellion against the Congress ?

I have been reading the Osprey book on the US heavy frigates and its very clear that it follows a pattern of
threat = funds
threat goes away = no funds
Thats why some ships get built, others get mothballed for many years until a new threat comes along

Now, we are postulating an attempt to get a unified decision to continue expansion when there is no threat. Congress at this time seems to be the states rights idea, i.e. if there is no need for federal action then none should be taken. Its not as it is now where everyone is bought and sold

To get a larger US navy IMHO you need a larger and continuing threat

Grey Wolf

You don't feel that war with france over louisiana, and hence with spain, is a large and continuing threat?

[DuQuense]

One problem with your POD is that by 1776 the British Navy was haveing over half its new ships built in the New England shipyards. There really wasn't a need to build new yards.

[Faeelin]

Originally Posted by DuQuense

One problem with your POD is that by 1776 the British Navy was haveing over half its new ships built in the New England shipyards. There really wasn't a need to build new yards.

Unless situations have changed in 30 years, eh? (Well, okay. America's merchant fleet was huge. But warships can require special yards).

[Melvin Loh]

Well at the very least, a more developed US Navy by 1800 would've meant that the Barbary states wouldn't have tried to stuff around with the new American republic, right ? Would the deterrent power of a strong USN have ensured that the Karamanli corsairs didn't pick on American merchant shipping ?