DBWI, WI No Polynesian Vikings

[NapoleonXIV]

What if China and Japan had not been subject to the depredations of the Polynesians, AKA the "Asian Vikings". I have read somewhere that given a much lessened population in their islands of origin the great war canoes might never have plied the Yangtze or the Japanese coast from 900 to 1200, but only colonized the Eastern Pacific

[corourke]

Without the Polynesians to keep them focused on the west, the Chinese would probably have been able to resist the Mongols. I mean, how could they be so stupid as to allow such a power to arise right on their eastern doorstep if they weren't so distracted? I see a China that, after it subdues the Mongols, expands to the north and east and perhaps even engages in colonialism when the time arises. I don't think much could stop this hypothetical China.

[sunsurf]

Well, they were pretty insular at times. They might conquer Japan and SE Asia, then close their borders until the Europeans come. Then if they don't modernize, there wouldn't even be a China left.

[Nicole]

Conquering Japan? Ah, so the Emperor is a vassal of the ruler of Beijing rather than whatever Polynesian warrior has Edo at the time...
I think without the Polynesians conquering parts of Japan to form dominions of their own, Japan would be able to unite and be a strong state of it's own. Even after the Viking period ended in most places, Ethnic Polynesian Daimyo dominated Japan for a long time.

[skenn002]

I have never heard of Polynesian influences on Japan before, this sounds interesting, do you know of any good sources to look into to read more on it.

[Mr_ Bondoc]

Well consider that the Treaty of Tordesillas of 1492 had to be amended in 1519 after Ferdinand Magellan and his crew were enslaved and tortured by the Polynesians. Consider it wasn't until 1779, with the saving of Captain Cook by Princess Leilukulani that any serious colonization of the South Pacific was made...

Can anyone imagine a South Pacific wherein the nations of Indonesia, Khmer Empire, Annam, Zamboanga, and the Koorii Empire are colonized and owned by the Spanish, the Portuguese, the Dutch, the Americans and the Japanese?

[HARRY]

while we most often hear of the polynesians raiding towns and temples around south east asia it is good to remember they were also great traders. Trading posts that developed into great cities can be found all around the region. Ceremics from beijing have been found as far east as Hawaii and "Maori Jade" was highly prized in the courts of India.

As a side note if I remember my history correctly there were several attempts at invading japan by various polynesian tribes that were only partly successful. Securing some of the islands but later being absorbed back under the nipponese influence. It was not until a chief from the an area controlled by the polynesians on the Korea Penisular invaded over 900 years ago that a none Japanese born person became ruler. Later intermarriage with the shogun classes ment that Japan never became totally polynesian although it is still noticeable in certain words in japanese.

[birdy]

maybe we would'nt have those riduculous theories about the polynesians reaching america

[cow defender]

Originally Posted by birdie

maybe we would'nt have those riduculous theories about the polynesians reaching america

what's america?

[birdy]

'whats america'

i may be wrong but i think america exists i the timeline

right?

[Nicole]

Originally Posted by birdie

'whats america'

i may be wrong but i think america exists i the timeline

right?

Yes, because the 6th post of the thread quite blatantly says "Americans", so you can't deny America's existance after it's been mentioned.

It was not until a chief from the an area controlled by the polynesians on the Korea Penisular invaded over 900 years ago that a none Japanese born person became ruler.

That's disputable- the Japanese claim that since the Emperor remained (though as a puppet) that the state remained, while other sources say that large areas of Japan were already under the control of Polynesians and the event 900 years ago was just the Polynesian lord Teloha-tiki forcing tribute from the Emperor's domains in the small area around Edo he ruled independently.

[Mr_ Bondoc]

Well, try to imagine a world wherein King Kamehameha III doesn't form his "Alliance of Steel" with the United States in 1825 after meeting with Ambassador James Honnewell. Consider that the 1843 failed coup attempt by British ambassador Lord George Paulet helped spark the war that prevented any British or French hold over the South Pacific until at least 1875. Who knows, the islands of the Kingdom of Hawai'i may have been even called the Cook Islands in the ATL...

[Nicole]

Hm, Hawaii was a major ally of the United States during it's Pacific ambitions against Britain and Spain, perhaps if that never happened the Oregon Country would be under British rule? Would Canada stretch from "Sea to Sea"?

[Mr_ Bondoc]

Originally Posted by Imajin

Hm, Hawaii was a major ally of the United States during it's Pacific ambitions against Britain and Spain, perhaps if that never happened the Oregon Country would be under British rule? Would Canada stretch from "Sea to Sea"?

Consider that the Warof 1812 was still fresh in the minds of many Americans when the Crisis of 1843. Just remember as well that the Polynesians considered the coup attempt led by Lord George Paulet was attack on the "god-king", thus explaining the long enmity that the Polynesians express to this day....

[Nicole]

I would more attribute the Polynesian emnity against the British to the disaster that was the Nauru War, over that island's phosphates... I mean, after that everything west of Nauru fell into European hands and were harshly colonized, and the lesser allied Kingdoms in Tonga, Fiji, and Aotearoa became British Protectorates. This also caused a collapse in the Alliance of Steel for a time, because the Americans couldn't intervene since they were fighting a Civil War...

[Mr_ Bondoc]

Originally Posted by Imajin

I would more attribute the Polynesian emnity against the British to the disaster that was the Nauru War, over that island's phosphates... I mean, after that everything west of Nauru fell into European hands and were harshly colonized, and the lesser allied Kingdoms in Tonga, Fiji, and Aotearoa became British Protectorates. This also caused a collapse in the Alliance of Steel for a time, because the Americans couldn't intervene since they were fighting a Civil War...

Well, the stationing of British troops along the Yukon Territory starting in 1898 with the discovery of oil deposits in the Iniskin Peninsula on the western shore of Cook Inlet, served to create a greater rift between Americans and Great Britain. According to Wilson's War by Jim Powell, President Woodrow Wilson actually considered an alliance with Kaiser Wilhelm II if only to spite the British for allowing the collapse of the "Alliance of Steel" in 1863. In an ATL, without the Polnesians, consider that the United States may have joined WWI sooner than 1917 when the Zimmermann Telegram warned of Kaiser Wilhelm's efforts of King Kahanamoku to take Bora Bora and Guam from the British....

[pa_dutch]

Forget Asia, imagine if the Polynesian Vikings from Easter Island never brought the rongorongo script to South America. I wonder if the Incas would still rule all of South America and Western Antarctica today?

[Mr_ Bondoc]

Originally Posted by pa_dutch

Forget Asia, imagine if the Polynesian Vikings from Easter Island never brought the rongorongo script to South America. I wonder if the Incas would still rule all of South America and Western Antarctica today?

Well, according to Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond, the reason for the Incan survival wasn't the development of rongorongo script, but the long and arduous task of travel across the South American Continent created by the Polynesian forces throughout the South Pacific. Just remember that throughout the 15th, 16th and 17th centuries, French, Spanish and British explorers were prevented from crossing over to the western shores of South America by the Polynesian war parties near the area of Tierra Del Fuego and along the Andes...