WI: South Carolina leaves the Union during the Nullification Crisis of 1832.

WI: South Carolina leaves the Union during the Nullification Crisis of 1832.

In 1832, South Carolina was very angry over the federal tariffs of 1828 and 1832 because it would have a negative effect on their economy. South Carolina Senator John C. Calhoun had long talked about having a separate president for the South and was rallying supports. So my question is what if South Carolina leaves the Union in 1832 and John C. Calhoun is made its president? Would President Andrew Jackson lead an army to take back the state, like he vowed? Would other Southern states join South Carolina? How could New England, who was also angry about the Tariffs, impact the situation?
 
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WI: South Carolina leaves the Union during the Nullification Crisis of 1832.
In 1832, South Carolina was very angry over the federal tariffs of 1828 and 1832 because it would have a negative effect on their economy. South Carolina Senator John C. Calhoun had long talked about having a separate president for the South and was rallying supports. So my question is what if South Carolina leaves the Union in 1832 and John C. Calhoun is made its president? Would President Andrew Jackson lead an army to take back the state, like he vowed? Would other Southern states join South Carolina? How could New England, who was also angry about the Tariffs, impact the situation?

I do think that this is the best way for the South to secede peacefully ahead of OTL; however, something tells me that Jackson wouldn't take this lying down, his ego and sense of authority wouldn't allow it. Whether the other states would join South Carolina (I'm positive much of the Deep South was sympathetic to their cause, and perhaps the Upper South as well) is key as to whether secession could be successfully achieved. I honestly couldn't guess about New England, although it'd be an interesting way to balkanize the country (this also reminds me of a TL I saw on the Warships1 forum, which has New England leave after the Hartford convention and a peaceful secession of the South decades later, after the precedent had been established for leaving).

EDIT: After doing some digging, I discovered that Southron support for South Carolina wasn't as deep as I thought.
 
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If just South Carolina did, then it would be a very messy war, but the Union would win, though at a cost economically, politically and in terms of manpower.

If all of the states to the south of Virginia seceded, then the Union could never win and the Southern States would remain independent (and likely be recognized quickly by Britain and others) and if Virginia went along, well the Union would probably be on the defensive.
 
I could honestly see Virginia going either way; on one hand, they felt pretty secure in their influence on the US government and felt that they were firmly behind the steering wheel in terms of affecting Federal policy. On the other hand, they're still part of the South (with all that entails at that time) and may well feel that their important interests would lie below the Mason-Dixon Line. It really does depend on how popular support would be for the secession in the other states.

I doubt the US would be able to do much if they did leave (other than relocate the capital), as IIRC the overwhelming numbers and industrial advantage the North held in the ACW over the South wasn't nearly so absolute in the 1830s. I'm sure they may try to fight the secession, but at that time I could honestly see victory going either way, up until the late 1840s anyway.
 
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Jackson wouldn't take this sitting down, that's for sure. The problem would be enforcing his decision. Would VA and NC somehow bar the passage of federal troops in sympathy with SC, thus widening the rift? I think entering SC with federal troops could be time-consuming and difficult, whereas enforcement via the navy is another story altogether: the US Navy could bottle up Charleston harbor and just for fun lob a few shells into the city now and then. I don't believe there are any other significant ports apart from Charleston, meaning that SC's overseas commerce would have to go overland to Savannah or Wilmington (NC), which would add significantly to the cost of such things as ships' stores, rice, cotton and indigo (all major SC products at the time). Could be that would be the best solution to coerce SC back into line while not actively angering neighboring states in an era when the US was considered an assemblage of entities rather than a single entity.
 
I think SC would stand alone. Slavery isn't involved in any way which was the most important thing for Southerners, there was no secession movement to speak of and North Carolina would certainly allow Federal troops to cross its state to crush its rival. North and South Carolina tended to squabble about everything at that time. North Carolina would likely to send its own troops to help.
 
AJ beats the ever-loving shit out of Calhounistan.

A positive side effect of this the ACW as we know it wouldn't happen. After SC gets the crap beat out of it it would never take the lead on secession again as it would never trust the other Southern states and every other state would think three times as well. The lesson from that incident would be "If you secede you are on your own."
 
Andrew Jackson vs traitors. I wonder where Calhoun gets hung at? DC or in Charlestown? Or does he run away in woman's clothing like Jefferson Davis ended up doing?
 
If South Carolina secedes, or even say S. Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi, it ends with the Union Army crushing the rebellion. Jackson once said, "The constituation and its laws are supreme, the union indissoluble." With Jackson president secession will not end well.


 
I agree with the "South Carolina gets their ass whuped" group. I don't remember who said it..but I do believe it was a Southerner..sums up the feeling of most people at the time, "South Carolina is too small to be a country, and large to be a lunatic asylum".
 
If South Carolina secedes, or even say S. Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi, it ends with the Union Army crushing the rebellion. Jackson once said, "The constituation and its laws are supreme, the union indissoluble." With Jackson president secession will not end well.

The Federal military was small at the time and the South was in general more powerful economically and politically, the further you go back from the OTL Civil War the less likely it becomes that the Union wins.
 
The Federal military was small at the time and the South was in general more powerful economically and politically, the further you go back from the OTL Civil War the less likely it becomes that the Union wins.

Let me start off by saying that I too believe South Carolina would get it's ass kicked up between their shoulderblades (and that's a Southerner saying it), given that we're talking about "Duelin'" Andrew Jackson, Ol' Hickory hisself, being in the White House; the man was born ornery and willing to fight for what he wanted...and secession isn't something he'd want. HOWEVER, were somebody else to be the President, I agree that the South would stand a fair chance at winning independence.

Say again, the industrial and numerical superiority of the North wasn't as absolute at that time, and the South (the Upper South, especially) experienced a near-parity with them due to greater comparative militarization of its populace (all that Indian fighting, y'see) and a fairly experienced officer and NCO corps (not as much as post-Mexican War, but still blooded nonetheless).
 
Why would the rest of the South want to leave? They controlled the Federal Government pretty thoroughly, and South Carolina (or any other uppity deep south state) trying to leave would threaten their hegemony and their particular institution.

They'd be lining up to beat South Carolina back into compliance.
 
Don't forget one of thier own is in the White House - having a slaver like Andrew Jackson leading the Union means other slave states see very little reason to add thier necks to the noose that will soon be around Calhoun's neck.

So, long story short, South Carolina gets jacked, John C Calhoun gets lynched, and the US Civil War never happens, with the South having a nice reminder of what sucession will being in the smoking ruin where Charleston once was. Slavery gets abolished in the 1870s under gradual manumission, with slaveowners getting recompensated. Hell, if South Carolina still hasn't reovered by then, we could see it turned into the black Oklahoma.
 
The Nullification Crisis was not over slavery.

Jackson who was both a slaveowner as well as from a slaveowning state had all of zero interest in making it about that, but he is an ardent Unionist, which in some ways makes him a tad like Zachary Taylor.

There will be plenty of grumbling over federal tariffs, but how many states are going to be willing to risk everything for the politically risky and economically devastating (via loss of trade with the rest of the US) decision of secession? I'd wager not too many. Hate tariffs or not, plenty of the south still depends on the trade the north provides. The decision by the states that would become the Confederacy to secede and attempt to become their own nation was a decision that took decades to form, because ultimately it was an enormous gamble (that the South ultimately lost) and was not at all guaranteed to succeed.

As Jello and others have said, the South at this time has a good situation in the federal government: this is still the early days where the South remains enormously politically influential and the North has yet to flex its muscles despite its advantage in wealth and population size. South Carolina is a dangerous rabble-rouser to the people who have a good situation here.
 
If Andrew Jackson is busy fighting South Carolina, is there any chance the Seminoles will get off not being removed ? On another note can't South Carolina launch a geurilla war similar to what it did during the American Revolution?
 
Andrew Jackson would crucify himself if it meant keeping the Union together, under so circumstance would he EVER allow any state to secede without a LOT of blood being drawn.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
A positive side effect of this the ACW as we know it wouldn't happen. After SC gets the crap beat out of it it would never take the lead on secession again as it would never trust the other Southern states and every other state would think three times as well. The lesson from that incident would be "If you secede you are on your own."

That would make for an interesting TL.
 
If Andrew Jackson is busy fighting South Carolina, is there any chance the Seminoles will get off not being removed ? On another note can't South Carolina launch a geurilla war similar to what it did during the American Revolution?

The Seminoles might survive a while after the war as the government has more important things to do. SC is toast no matter what it does. SC can't fight off every other state in the Union single handed!
 
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