WI: Washington dies during the siege of Yorktown?

Joe Hooker · Mar 1, 2013

So, what would have happened if Washington had perhaps died during the siege of Yorktown? Lets say as he's preparing to fire off the first cannonball at the siege it explodes prematurely and kills him or something. I think Yorktown would have been won regardless by that time.

But, would the Americans have still won their revolution? And if they did, would the first president of the United States (assuming they followed OTL and set up a central government) been able to keep it together? Or would they have been able to form a central government?

Would Britain have come in and taken over the Colonies again?

Elfwine · Mar 1, 2013

The Revolution was pretty much over after Yorktown (yes, it technically lasted another two years, but the major fighting between British and American troops was pretty much done), so I think so.

But it would be a hard blow to the Continental Army and to American unity.

Tripwire · Mar 1, 2013

Would have very little effect on the revolution, but potentially serious effects on the United States.

Joe Hooker · Mar 1, 2013

Elfwine said:
The Revolution was pretty much over after Yorktown (yes, it technically lasted another two years, but the major fighting between British and American troops was pretty much done), so I think so.

But it would be a hard blow to the Continental Army and to American unity.

That's true. After 1781 it basically transfered to the world theater and focused more between France and Britain then America.

But, especially in the first days of the new nation, you had the Whiskey Rebillion. Could it have survived those early trails as easily?

Elfwine · Mar 1, 2013

A lot depends on who takes Washington's place. It's not as if he was the only figure with any ability as a leader.

Joe Hooker · Mar 1, 2013

Elfwine said:
A lot depends on who takes Washington's place. It's not as if he was the only figure with any ability as a leader.

Gates could have possibly done a fair job. Don't know how his political savvy was though. Washington's main force was his popularity because of Yorktown and beating the redcoats there. I guess any war hero could have had some pull on the populace. But, then again, it goes back to who is politically intelligent enough among those men to make it work.

Jasen777 · Mar 1, 2013

Joe Hooker said:
But, especially in the first days of the new nation, you had the Whiskey Rebillion. Could it have survived those early trails as easily?

There'd be serious problems before that, with the bigie being if a constitution to replace the hopeless Articels can be achieved and agreed to without him.

Joe Hooker · Mar 1, 2013

Jasen777 said:
There'd be serious problems before that, with the bigie being if a constitution to replace the hopeless Articels can be achieved and agreed to without him.

I was just giving an example of what occurred almost immediately after the forming of the "nation" although I think nation is perhaps too strong a word until the Constitution.

Tripwire · Mar 1, 2013

Joe Hooker said:
That's true. After 1781 it basically transfered to the world theater and focused more between France and Britain then America.

But, especially in the first days of the new nation, you had the Whiskey Rebillion. Could it have survived those early trails as easily?

I'm going to say probably. The Constitution would be written without Washington. The real challenge would be how the Presidency develops.

Elfwine · Mar 1, 2013

Joe Hooker said:
Gates could have possibly done a fair job. Don't know how his political savvy was though. Washington's main force was his popularity because of Yorktown and beating the redcoats there. I guess any war hero could have had some pull on the populace. But, then again, it goes back to who is politically intelligent enough among those men to make it work.

The Gates of Camden infamy, or some other Gates?

GrandpaTanaka · Mar 1, 2013

Revolution goes off without a hitch.

John Adams as first president.

Mikestone8 · Mar 1, 2013

Sucrose said:
I'm going to say probably. The Constitution would be written without Washington. The real challenge would be how the Presidency develops.

Would there even be one? Or do you get a multiple executive, say a triumvirate with one man chosen by the House, one by the Senate and one by the States?

Faeelin · Mar 1, 2013

Mikestone8 said:
Would there even be one? Or do you get a multiple executive, say a triumvirate with one man chosen by the House, one by the Senate and one by the States?

I could see things getting messier earlier; with Washington dead, who aborts the Newburgh Conspiracy?

Joe Hooker · Mar 1, 2013

Elfwine said:
The Gates of Camden infamy, or some other Gates?

Gates as in won Saratoga and brought the French in. Even with the Camden disaster, he probably was pretty popular still on the fact alone he lead to French intervention.

SlyDessertFox · Mar 1, 2013

Joe Hooker said:
Gates as in won Saratoga and brought the French in. Even with the Camden disaster, he probably was pretty popular still on the fact alone he lead to French intervention.

I'd attribute Saratoga more to Arnold than to Gates. IMO, he won the battle.

Joe Hooker · Mar 1, 2013

slydessertfox said:
I'd attribute Saratoga more to Arnold than to Gates. IMO, he won the battle.

However, it's the commanding general who gets the credit in any battle. aka Gates. And once Arnold had defected, any fame he had evaporated.

Elfwine · Mar 1, 2013

Joe Hooker said:
However, it's the commanding general who gets the credit in any battle. aka Gates. And once Arnold had defected, any fame he had evaporated.

But Gates, after Camden, is looking like an overrated fool. Saratoga or no.

Joe Hooker · Mar 1, 2013

Elfwine said:
But Gates, after Camden, is looking like an overrated fool. Saratoga or no.

Beyond Gates, there really isn't too many heroes from the war. Lee proved he was even more a fool. Perhaps Knox, or Ethan Allen. Maybe even William Clark with his little campaign in the "Far West". But beyond Washington, there aren't too many real war heroes.

Sure, maybe Benjamin Franklin. Samuel Adams.

Elfwine · Mar 1, 2013

Joe Hooker said:
Beyond Gates, there really isn't too many heroes from the war. Lee proved he was even more a fool. Perhaps Knox, or Ethan Allen. Maybe even William Clark with his little campaign in the "Far West". But beyond Washington, there aren't too many real war heroes.

Sure, maybe Benjamin Franklin. Samuel Adams.

Nathaniel F--king Greene.

And George Clark, not William.

Tripwire · Mar 1, 2013

Joe Hooker said:
Beyond Gates, there really isn't too many heroes from the war. Lee proved he was even more a fool. Perhaps Knox, or Ethan Allen. Maybe even William Clark with his little campaign in the "Far West". But beyond Washington, there aren't too many real war heroes.

Sure, maybe Benjamin Franklin. Samuel Adams.

I'm going to go with "John Adams becomes first president" then. After an incredible amount of political infighting that will turn the position into god-knows-what.