DBWI: Abraham Lincoln wasn't killed by a bear?
- Thread starter ArKhan
- Start date
It could change many MANY things. Because of what is, let's face it, the dumbest death in all North America after Custer slipping on his soap, the program of Lincoln isn't really known.
He was elected as "republican" (basically a weird mix between industrialist party and today's radicals) and his program were quite important : economical and productive protectionism, support of inner emigration in the west, soft opposition to slavery's expansion...
Without the death of Lincoln in January 1861, it's quite possible that the phony secession of Breckinridgeian states would be more severe, maybe up to Louisiana that would have blockaded the southern trade way for USA?
I don't see how the crisis would have been resolved : OTL Buchanan asked for new elections with the agreement of Hamlin the co-lister of Lincoln in order to "preserve the unity" (Hamlin was partisan of going "up to the more violent use of federal force if needed", but the republicans didn't followed him entierly on it and their party began to decline).
Lincoln seems to have been more moderate, so maybe he would have tried to resolve it "politically", maybe by repealling publicy some aspect of his program or calling southern democrats on his government?
He was elected as "republican" (basically a weird mix between industrialist party and today's radicals) and his program were quite important : economical and productive protectionism, support of inner emigration in the west, soft opposition to slavery's expansion...
Without the death of Lincoln in January 1861, it's quite possible that the phony secession of Breckinridgeian states would be more severe, maybe up to Louisiana that would have blockaded the southern trade way for USA?
I don't see how the crisis would have been resolved : OTL Buchanan asked for new elections with the agreement of Hamlin the co-lister of Lincoln in order to "preserve the unity" (Hamlin was partisan of going "up to the more violent use of federal force if needed", but the republicans didn't followed him entierly on it and their party began to decline).
Lincoln seems to have been more moderate, so maybe he would have tried to resolve it "politically", maybe by repealling publicy some aspect of his program or calling southern democrats on his government?
Maybe if Lincoln survives, the Republican Party might survive? I know this is pretty borderline ASB, but I think if someone is creative enough, they can find a way for a Lincoln survival to prevent the collapse of the Republican Party that happened in the 1870's.
Hmm... Interesting scenario. Of course we all know the Populists later took the lefty slot, but collapsed in the 1920s, letting the Socialists grow to major status.
With a surviving Lincoln and Republican Party, history would be very different in the USA. We wouldn't have President James Kyle, for one...
The republicans would probably survive as long Lincoln is able to unite them, but I doubt that once he would left the office, they could remain such : they had too much divisions and contradictions.
At the very best I would see two party dividing the republican heritage : radicals* (let by an Hamlin without an image of coward because of his OTL decision of 1860) and industrialists*
It occurs to me that the best way to have Lincoln survive is not for there to be no bear, but for him to be riding a different horse. The mare he was on was rather large, making it to slow to outrun the bear, and pinned him under it after the bear killed it. Some historians argue it was actually the wieght of horse rather then the bear itself that killed him.
I also very much that the Republican party could survive into modern times. Pretty much from Andrew Jackson on, the US party system has allways been "The Democratic GOP representing the status quo, and whatever group is pissed off at the Democrats at this particular moment." The Republicans where just as doomed as the Whigs before them, and the Populists and Socalists after them. The whole "soft resistence to slavery" platform of the Republicans just looses it's appeal when the populists begin pushing full abolition a decade later, same as how the Populist party lost it's appeal after slavery stopped being an issue, and industrial poverty became one. And what happens to the Socalist party after the depression and war is over? Why they're pushed aside by the Radical party and their civil rights agenda. In short, opposition parties in the United States exist only as long as the issue they fight the Democrats over.
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Don't you think Kyle would have been a Republican?
Either way, why would Lincoln be a consequential president? He was president in the mid-19th century, part of a long line of inconsequential presidents.
Well, much like Harrison before him, Lincoln is mostly famous for what he never got a chance to do, rather then what he did. If he had got a chance to actually do something, who's to say what his legacy would be?
To be honest, the Socialists did make a comeback in the 1960s when the Radicals completely fell apart after the Civil Rights Act removed the only rallying point they had.
I think the Socs are the exception to the rule, TBH, since they have a clear agenda, clear aims and follows up on them. Much like the Dems.
I doubt it. The socialists are collapsing in on themselves now. The Green Party seems like they are going to replace them pretty soon.
Well, yes, but they where back agian in the 1970s once gay rights and abortion became political issues, where as the Socialists fell conciderablly behind as the cold war with Communist Japan worsened, but that's mostly the result of democratic propaganda about how Socialist automatically equals Communist. An attitude still common in some parts of the traditionally Democratic "solid south".
Lincoln was assassinated but the Democrats tried to hush it up so that they could have a monopoly on politics and create a reunified Democratic-Republican Party. Considering how his beard was reported scalped off his face should lend credence to this. Why has no presidents before or after him had beards? I think the reason goes without saying.
Well, to be fair, bears are known to do that. Their instinct to to skin any part of an animal with hair on it, because they can't digest hair. It's also why bears sometimes remove a person's clothes durring an attack. Because we have no real evidence of a plot to kill Lincoln, I must say I perfer the offical and well documented bear attack, to a conspiracy theory with no evidence.
I hate it when people bring up this conspiracy. I mean really? Lincoln's wife herself (OOC: she lived right?) saw the whole thing unfold and confirmed shortly before her suicide that he was killed by a bear. Don't tell me now you are going to say her suicide wasn't a real suicide?
Either them or the Radicals are going to make a comeback. Either way, I can't see the Socialists, or the Democrats winning the next election. Too many people are pissed off at the Dems right now, and the Socialists are on the way down, considering how ineffectual their opposition to the Dems was this time around, which alienated quite a few voters.
I agree. The radicals are the real wildcard here.
OOC: are the radicals right or left wing?
OOC: Earlier posts establish the radicals as being pro-civil rights, pro-gay rights, and pro-abortion, so I'd say left.
IC: Indeed. They could easily lead to a hung congress, like what happened in 1988. That being said, there's no way the Dems are going to win in the presidential election, not with the Democratic incumbant having less than 30% approval ratings!
He may have less than 30% approval rating, but with the left split, I think Santorum might be able to get re-elected. If he does, I think I'm moving to Canada though.
Which one? West or East Canada? If East, I suggest you learn to speak French.
OOC: The ACW was one of the major factors leading to canadian confederation, since it's been established that the ACW was averted in TTL, then I'm assuming Canada remains unconfederated.