The Catholic British Empire.

lounge60

lounge60

We said that the Pope grants the divorce to Henry VIII,or that the King die in young age.
Anyway, Kingdom of England remains Catholic.
In your opinion how change the the character of British people?
We can imagine an Queen Elizabeth I Catholic,but is possible the development of the British Empire?
Or a British Empire with an Catholic England is improbable?
 

Elfwine

Why would a Catholic British Empire be any more improbable than a Protestant one?

Also, Elizabeth Tudor is unlikely if Henry gets his way - or dies young.
 

Badshah

Elfwine said:
Why would a Catholic British Empire be any more improbable than a Protestant one?

Also, Elizabeth Tudor is unlikely if Henry gets his way - or dies young.
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Well, suppose Britain doesn't get influenced by the idea of an East India Company and goes the France route of colonization, a hell of a lot can change. I don't think Henry will be an ardent supporter of the Pope, so Tordesillas will be ignored, but it changes the whole landscape, really.
 

Elfwine

trollhole said:
Well, suppose Britain doesn't get influenced by the idea of an East India Company and goes the France route of colonization, a hell of a lot can change. I don't think Henry will be an ardent supporter of the Pope, so Tordesillas will be ignored, but it changes the whole landscape, really.
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That could happen with or without being Catholic, I don't think it being Catholic makes it more likely.
 

Blair

Well if anything this might make Ireland a less troublesome part of the British Empire. That and Catholicism will be spread through Britain's colonies, that will be interesting.
 

Will Kürlich Kerl

Banned
Things are going to change a lot in and after the 30-Years War, now that Great Britain will be on the Catholic side instead of the Protestant side.
 

sum sine regno

Catholic doesn't have to mean Roman Catholic. It can easily remain Henrician Catholic, or perhaps be something more like the High Church branch. Catholic≠Roman Catholic. I'll point you to the Old Catholics, and Greek Catholics.
 

Captain Jack

Will Kürlich Kerl said:
Things are going to change a lot in and after the 30-Years War, now that Great Britain will be on the Catholic side instead of the Protestant side.
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Britain would probably stay on the same side regardless of religion. Look at the example of France. They intervened against the catholics and fought a 24 year war against Spain. Religion was not as defining a characteristic in the 30-Years War as usually thought.
 

Elfwine

Captain Jack said:
Britain would probably stay on the same side regardless of religion. Look at the example of France. They intervened against the catholics and fought a 24 year war against Spain. Religion was not as defining a characteristic in the 30-Years War as usually thought.
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But France wanted to break the Habsburgs. A Catholic England might not.
 

Captain Jack

Elfwine said:
But France wanted to break the Habsburgs. A Catholic England might not.
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True but it would depend on the specific POD used to keep England catholic. For example Henry VIII getting a son with Catherine of Aragon and staying catholic could keep Britain on the same side as Spain and the Empire. IIRC there was also some talk of wedding Mary to Charles V. However this is more than a hundred years before the 30-Years War so its hard to guess what the sides might be.

Hmmm. I appear to have talked myself round to your point of view.:eek:
 
Athelstane

Athelstane

sum sine regno said:
Catholic doesn't have to mean Roman Catholic. It can easily remain Henrician Catholic, or perhaps be something more like the High Church branch. Catholic≠Roman Catholic. I'll point you to the Old Catholics, and Greek Catholics.
Click to expand...

Which is essentially what Henry tried to do. And it ended up Protestant.

To this day, after all, the Church of England still follows the 1558 settlement formula of considering itself Catholic as well as Reformed.
 

AJNolte

So, the easiest way to do this is probably to have Arthur live longer, and have a son with Catherine. The question, then, will be what kind of Catholicism the English embrace. Will it be Spanish-style, with the inquisition and all? I'm skeptical; there were already a fair number of reformers, and the English had a history of not cleaving as closely to the papacy. I would more invision it evolving along the French line: moments of persecution mixed with moderate toleration.

As far as ripple effects, I think England will continue its traditional game of balancing France and Spain over against one another, regardless of religion. (BTW: if you set up the POD correctly, you could see a Catholic England and a Protestant France, which would be interesting). I wonder if Ireland stays Catholic in this scenario, or if Protestants from Scotland (would this butterfly Knox? Doubt it) convert larger numbers of Irish.

As for the new world colonies--which probably still happen--assuming there is no English inquisition, I see even more Protestants going there, and eventually, way more conflict.
 

Elfwine

If there's a significant number of English Protestants, not sure how England stays Catholic. Arthur I or no.
 

JedidiahStott

lounge60 said:
We said that the Pope grants the divorce to Henry VIII,or that the King die in young age.
Anyway, Kingdom of England remains Catholic.
In your opinion how change the the character of British people?
We can imagine an Queen Elizabeth I Catholic,but is possible the development of the British Empire?
Or a British Empire with an Catholic England is improbable?
Click to expand...

Just for the record, England OTL _was_ (/is) Catholic. Just not _Roman_ Catholic. The BoP recites (in many places) "I beleve in the holy goste. The holye catholike church. The communion of saintes. The forgevenes of sinnes. The resurreccion of the bodie. And the lyfe everlasting. "
 
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