Russia at Versailles?
- Thread starter Yalew
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I remember something about Erzurum and something in Northern Anatolia from the Ottomans and possibly Galicia from Austria.
I am thinking reparations as well and possibly something about Istanbul (not actually taking it mind).
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Basically what amounted to Wilsonian Armenia, the Bosphorous and Dardenelles (including Constantinople), the occupied regions of Persia, Galicia, Posen, and parts of Eastern Prussia (if not in its entirety).
If Russia survives with a pro-Allies and non-Communist government, any leniency (or pretenses to principles such as self-determination) go straight out the window. Expect heavy annexations in both the West and East for Germany, in addition to OTL. A surviving Russia also effectively kills independent Poland, but the territories taken by Poland are taken by Russia instead (and perhaps a bit more besides). Everything else goes as OTL, as the main reason Versailles wasn't harsher than it was was concerns about a buffer state against the USSR.
I'm not so certain Turkey would be treated harsher than OTL Sevres, it got off fairly lightly by virtue of it successfully resisting the imposition of Sevres. Well, it might fail to do force Lausanne ITTL, because IIRC, the USSR had a hand in helping Turkey, in which case you get Sevres. If they try anyhow, and fail, you can expect Greece to grab more of Anatolia, with all the joys for the Turkish people that implies.
I'm not so certain Turkey would be treated harsher than OTL Sevres, it got off fairly lightly by virtue of it successfully resisting the imposition of Sevres. Well, it might fail to do force Lausanne ITTL, because IIRC, the USSR had a hand in helping Turkey, in which case you get Sevres. If they try anyhow, and fail, you can expect Greece to grab more of Anatolia, with all the joys for the Turkish people that implies.
Agreed, but Constantinople may have been run like like a mandate, a join one. I thought the Tsar said no to Eastern Prussia and Posen?
East Prussia, I don't know, but there were plans on the table OTL for the Tsar to annex regions with Polish populations, such as Posen, Upper Silesia (well, they'll probably grab all of it), and West Prussia. If that's the case, then it would be odd to leave East Prussia hanging.
Deleted member 1487
I don't think all of East Prussia was on the table, but the Polish areas of Posen and Upper Silesia were, as were slivers of East Prussia that were a majority Slavic. Maybe the Polish corridor could have been taken, as it was a majority Kashubian (Western Slavic group). IIRC the Sorbs were too deep in Germany to absorb. An independent, though Russian influenced Czechoslovakia was on the table IIRC too, as the Czechs were pretty pro-(Imperial) Russia by the end of the war.
Wouldn't it make sense for Russia to take East Prussia, Posen, Danzig Corridor, West Galicia and Congress Poland and make it a independent country with a family from the Russian Empire as it's head?
Also, wouldn't the Czechs get a Russian as it's royal head?
Maybe not.
Probably not, as Russia already controlled Congress Poland before the war. It's not much of a victory if Russia leaves the war with less territory than it started (even if it's territory under a Russian monarch).
I don't believeRussia'd get Constantinople, because nobody else wanted them to have even part ownership, and the Ottomans might've even unsurrendered first. Now, Prussia bits are different, because the Entente loved the idea of sliced Germany, like after the following war. Though, BITS, because nobody'd want any one ally to get everything anymore than Constantinople.
It was still named Constantinople. The change of name to Istanbul came soon after, along with the change of country name to Turkey and formal deimperialization, after Kemal's takeover.
It was still named Constantinople. The change of name to Istanbul came soon after, along with the change of country name to Turkey and formal deimperialization, after Kemal's takeover.
It depends on the timing, Poland might still be independent if the war ends late enough for White Russia to tatter on the brink of defeat against Germans/Communist.
On the topic of Constantinople, both the British and the French were opposed to the idea of Russia controlling the Bosphorus so unless Russian troops are actually occupying Constantinople I think that it will most likely become an international city under a league of nations mandate and the Bosporus will be international territory. Much like the Straits of Gibraltar and Tangier was in the interwar period IOTL.
In the case of Finland, this depends on what kind of a Russia emerges from the war. A Tsarist Russia might well keep up the policies of Russification and slowly take away the last vestiges of Finnish autonomy. A non-Tsarist government, led by Kerensky or someone else could well restore Finnish autonomy (like the Provisional Government did IOTL) at first, though the terms of the autonomy would most likely be up for renegotiation after the war. If there is a successful Russian Constituent Assembly it naturally would decide the form of Finnish governance for the future, as well as that of the other parts of Russia.