Free city of Constantinople after WW1?
- Thread starter Scarecrow
- Start date
A free Constantinople would be neat. Would it eventually be possible for it to become a major center of Christianity once again?
I think its Patriarch may be reinstalled. Greece may well get the rest of European Turkey if Constantinople goes free though...chunkeymonkey13q said:
As rowmaster says, it may be a target for Turkish nationalists later, and Russia may prefer to have sole control over the straights, instead of sharing.
Leo Caesius
Banned
Why? Where else would he be?Scarecrow said:
Why not just create an independent country centered around the Bosphorus within the lines of the Sèvres Zone of the Straits?
If a Free City has to survive, it must be achieve a balance among its different components: Greek Christians, Armenians, Turks, Jews, Westerners.
It's not an easy task, but it might be achieved. Even better if it is achieved not on an apartheid-basis (no racial undertones intended obviously: under the Ottoman empire, though, the different components followed each its own path, without integration).
IMHO, Constantinople (like Jerusalem or Vienna or Singapore) is located at a natural crossroad between different cultures, and cannot belong to a single one of them: being a Free City would be the best possible outcome (and - just possibly - it might defuse the irredentist ambitions of the Turks. I might see Ataturk accepting with a mixture of regret and relief the free status of the City; certainly, I cannot imagine the same outcome if Contantinople becomes Greek or Russian).
I do not consider possible that Russia gains Constantinople and the Straits: the British in first place but also the other Entente Powers would be horrified.
The Greeks might gain the City, but they could not hold it.
It's not an easy task, but it might be achieved. Even better if it is achieved not on an apartheid-basis (no racial undertones intended obviously: under the Ottoman empire, though, the different components followed each its own path, without integration).
IMHO, Constantinople (like Jerusalem or Vienna or Singapore) is located at a natural crossroad between different cultures, and cannot belong to a single one of them: being a Free City would be the best possible outcome (and - just possibly - it might defuse the irredentist ambitions of the Turks. I might see Ataturk accepting with a mixture of regret and relief the free status of the City; certainly, I cannot imagine the same outcome if Contantinople becomes Greek or Russian).
I do not consider possible that Russia gains Constantinople and the Straits: the British in first place but also the other Entente Powers would be horrified.
The Greeks might gain the City, but they could not hold it.
Hmm. Might the nationalist Turkish response be to turf out the Greeks of Pontus, etc? In this case many may end up in Istanbul, making it a much more Greek city and changing the development of Athens? And similarly with whatever remaining Armenians. And other Ethnic groups?
A more Greek Istanbul? With lots of other ethnic groups too though? Enough Greeks to rename it Constantinople?
Could it end up also with the tit-for-tat expelled Turks from Greece? That would be a nice unstable mix of two aggrieved groups.
A more Greek Istanbul? With lots of other ethnic groups too though? Enough Greeks to rename it Constantinople?
Could it end up also with the tit-for-tat expelled Turks from Greece? That would be a nice unstable mix of two aggrieved groups.
I agree. A West Berlin on the Bosphorus!hexicus said:
And if, a la Singapore, it became an officially multilingual city- Turkish, Greek, Armenian and English or French- imagine the consequences on the rest of Turkey: a centre of Armenian resistance to Russia AND Turkey, an (eventually) almost entirely Westernised Turkish populace in the city, a media centre for the entire region. It would surely boom, and would have joined the EU with Greece in 1981.
Great idea by the way, Scarecrow. I like it a lot.
A Free City established in 1919 would have very strict rules for balancing powers and rights of the different groups (a bit similar to what happened in Lebanon in 1948). Then it depends how the population growth goes.mishery said:
IMHO, there is no chance to bring in a lot of people from a single ethnic group all at once. So, the Greeks of Pontus and Smyrna go back to greece, in exchange for the Turks living there. Same as happened OTL.
Free Istanbul/Constantinople or whatever they'd be calling it during the Cold War would make a great setting for a AH/spy thriller yes. Turkey would need to stay neutral in WW2 as in OTL tho.
So International Straits as in Sevres but Turkey keeps everything else as in OTL or just the city? Both have advantages and disadvantages.
So International Straits as in Sevres but Turkey keeps everything else as in OTL or just the city? Both have advantages and disadvantages.
Wow- this has fantastic possibilities! What if the British wrote her charter and insisted on a few things like free trade and an independent judiciary? The crummy economic policies of a surviving Imperial Russia and eventually crypto-socialist Greece and muddleheaded post-colonial strong men in the Middle East and North Africa could make such a Constantinople an unparalleled economic powerhouse- Hong Kong writ large. I still want to live in one of the "Nothing happens since 1910 except the British Empire grows explosively and everybody inexplicably acts like Vaclav Havel all the time" ATL's, but this Constantinople would be a fine place to vacation- good on yer, Scarecrow!
Circa 2006: Population ten million, G.D.P. three hundred billion USD?
Circa 2006: Population ten million, G.D.P. three hundred billion USD?
After the revolution, a lot of white Russians would move there. It would be something like a Tangiers writ large. What happens after WW2 (which might be butterflied away by this POD - or could see Turkey allied with Germany, who knows) depends on the sanity of the inhabitants: it can become a Mediterranean Singapore, or another Beirut.
