What Edward I's infamous Edict_of_Expulsion never happened, and the Jews weren't expelled from england?
WI: The jews no expelled by Edward I?
- Thread starter ArKhan
- Start date
Short answer : They'll be expelled by another king.
Long Answer : See, the antijudaism in Northern Europe was enough develloped at this time that you had maybe 2 000 Jews still inhabiting England because of special taxes, special marks, special humilations, etc.
So you won't have actually big changes.
Long Answer : See, the antijudaism in Northern Europe was enough develloped at this time that you had maybe 2 000 Jews still inhabiting England because of special taxes, special marks, special humilations, etc.
So you won't have actually big changes.
Pretty much. Nearly every western European country expelled the Jews at one time or another. The centralized monarchies were able to make it stick; the German and Italian states weren't, because some local ruler was always willing to take in the Jews who were expelled from his neighbor's domain. England was more like Spain, Portugal and France in that regard than like the HRE, so I'd imagine that the Jews would be expelled during the fourteenth or (at absolute latest) fifteenth century no matter what Edward I did.
Rather than using western/eastern divide, you should use a northern/southern one.
By exemple, while England expelled Jews in the XIII century, you had Jewish doctors being hailed in Montpellier university.
Basically, you have the policy applied in England or northern Germany appearing one century later in the south, because of many factors : Crusade in southern France carrying french customs in that matter, reinforcment of the royal power, crisis of the XIV century, etc.
Are you sure that "centralized" is the fitting word? Especially when the most antijudaic regions were in HRE.
By exemple, the first "feodal" great scale antijudaic demonstrations were made by local relativly poor nobles in opposition of "established" nobles that protected Jewish communauties in HRE.
Less than due to the strengthening of royal power (even if it have something to do), it's the appearance of justinian roman law (as opposed to roman customs, more issued from theodosian and alaric codes) and the claim that kings or great feudal lords made to take care of religious justice (less because of devotion, even if sincere, than taking over the feudal rights of justice the clergy had)...
By exemple, heresy (and judaism was classified somewhat like that) lost its "entiere" religious classification for being considered as a lese-majesty crime.
The loss of power of papacy, with others factors, allowed this claims to be enforced.
Fair enough: the 1306 expulsion decree was widely disregarded in southern France, and it wasn't until the end of the century that Jews were expelled from the entire kingdom.
The reason I used an east-west divide was that (at least as far as I know) Jews weren't expelled from any country east of the HRE, with the exception of Hungary for a brief period. In eastern Europe, Jews were mistreated, ghettoized and sometimes massacred, but not expelled outright.
Certainly "centralized" is a very relative term, but the extreme decentralization of the HRE is why Jews were never permanently expelled from its soil. The individual states might be very anti-Judaic, but there would always be others that weren't. If Jews were expelled from (for instance) Frankfurt, they could go to Hannover, and after a few years, Frankfurt would have a new ruler who would let them back in. In contrast, once the Jews were firmly expelled from England, France and the Iberian kingdoms, they didn't return for centuries.
Anaxagoras
Banned
The Jews were expelled largely because Edward I wanted to confiscate their property to finance his wars. If he does not do this, how is he going to pay for his wars against Wales and Scotland?
Largely true, except for this last statement concerning France. While they were expelled definitly in the XIV century, you had Jews from Portugal (Juifs Portugais) and from Spain that passed by Portugal settling the aquitain coastal region, having a great influence in maritime trade and industry.
In Lorraine, when it become to be slowly annexed by the "protectorate" of Trois-Evechés, the Valois allowed Jews to settle Metz and other towns up to the Revolution.
Finally, even if it wasn't an actual french territory, more a protectorate de facto, the Comtat Venaissin hosted many Jews (Juifs du Pape) where depsite a hard legislation, they managed to live up to 1792.
So you had returns, not enough to make their demographical situation comparable to Middle Ages but nevertheless at a noticable scale.