Music WI: Van Halen goes thrash
- Thread starter Hades
- Start date
Hmm.. interesting idea.. one of the biggest bands on the planet at the time changing direction.
What about Van Halen going crossover thrash, or even rap/metal circa 1986 or '87?
There is a precedent - Suicidal Tendencies had some rather commercial and quite rap-influenced stuff on their second album, 'Join the Army' released 1987 - especially the title track.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq_fqeK5Y4E (note the drastic change from rap to thrash at about 1:50)
Maybe THIS could be a starting point for Van Halen's new direction - perhaps Roth gets especially inspired after going to a Suicidal Tendencies or Run DMC concert?
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The challenge here is that Van Halen's pop-influenced 1984 is one of the biggest albums of 1984. It's difficult to imagine the band keeping the same lineup and deciding to radically change their sound in one album after basically hitting the jackpot.
So it seems to me that the real option involves Van Halen being willing to turn the page after firing Diamond Dave; a sort of "I don't care how much money we make, I'm not going through that again" mindset. Instead of signing the even-poppier Sammy Hagar, have VH ink a frontman who takes the band in a thrash-metal direction. Ronnie James Dio, perhaps? (Ian Gillan is available, but his vocal chords are shredded by 1984.)
So it seems to me that the real option involves Van Halen being willing to turn the page after firing Diamond Dave; a sort of "I don't care how much money we make, I'm not going through that again" mindset. Instead of signing the even-poppier Sammy Hagar, have VH ink a frontman who takes the band in a thrash-metal direction. Ronnie James Dio, perhaps? (Ian Gillan is available, but his vocal chords are shredded by 1984.)
It'll never happen with Diamond Dave. Plus recruiting a new vocalist from the burgeoning Thrash genre will be out of the question due to the commercial success of 1984.
Dio would be a good choice but they'd only record in the Heavy Metal genre; not Thrash. Plus, his personality may not gel with Eddie's.
But even if they do find a vocalist suitable for that genre, I have a feeling Michael Anthony may make an earlier departure from VH.
Dio would be a good choice but they'd only record in the Heavy Metal genre; not Thrash. Plus, his personality may not gel with Eddie's.
But even if they do find a vocalist suitable for that genre, I have a feeling Michael Anthony may make an earlier departure from VH.
Fair point, but from an attitude point-of-view I can see Roth embracing the "goofy" end of thrash more easily than the deadly serious Metallica/Megadeth part of the scene.
Suicidal Tendencies had their fair share of goofy humour - especially with the Infectious Grooves side-project.
For Van Halen to become a dark & serious thrash band, they'd need something to change their mindset - some accident or personal crisis surely?
Actually, the Fair Warning album was quite dark. Yeah, you had stuff like Unchained and So This is Love, but you also had mean streets and one foot out the door (and even the sexual songs seemed a little darker and sleazier, especially dirty movies), so its not like they couldnt write dark, serious music.
Also, i can see the thrash VH kind of sounding like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Cl1f_6FYQo
(albiet heavier and with more of a crunchier sound than the usual guitar heroics in this one)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Cl1f_6FYQo
(albiet heavier and with more of a crunchier sound than the usual guitar heroics in this one)
I mean, Dio has done thrash-ish stuff, case in point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21VECfzsbXc But I don't see him joining Van Halen, as Dio's solo band had actually become successful for him by '86. And his personality definitely wouldn't jive with Eddie's.
As for Ian Gillan, again, he could pull it off, but as has been said, his vocal chords are shot by this point, just listen to him trying to sing songs like Zero the Hero, or Heaven and Hell live with Black Sabbath in '83/'84.
That being said, you want a vocalist that can handle thrash, and has a decent rock/metal pedigree by that point, Japanese vocalist Minoru Niihara from Loudness. Case in point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZyVAy41-fI Considering the pop-metal direction Loudness took in the mid '80s in order to break into the American market, and the fact that he would be replaced by an American, Mike Vescera, he's available too.
You want to tie these people together? The first track I linked to, What Cost War, is written by Jeff Pilson of Dokken fame, who also played bass for Dio. The drummer is none other than the late Munetaka Higuchi of Loudness fame, the same band Minoru Niihara sang for up until being replaced by Mike Vescera for the Soldier of Fortune, which features keyboardist Claude Schnell, who also played with Dio.
You want to tie these people together? The first track I linked to, What Cost War, is written by Jeff Pilson of Dokken fame, who also played bass for Dio. The drummer is none other than the late Munetaka Higuchi of Loudness fame, the same band Minoru Niihara sang for up until being replaced by Mike Vescera for the Soldier of Fortune, which features keyboardist Claude Schnell, who also played with Dio.
...who was in Tenacious D and the Pick of Destiny with John C. Reilly, who in turn was in The River Wild with Kevin Bacon.
On a serious note: Niihara's an inspired choice, although if he's unable to sing any of the classic Van Halen songs, that might rule him out from the start.
...who was in Tenacious D and the Pick of Destiny with John C. Reilly, who in turn was in The River Wild with Kevin Bacon.
On a serious note: Niihara's an inspired choice, although if he's unable to sing any of the classic Van Halen songs, that might rule him out from the start.
I think he could pull it off. Sure, he's got a thick Japanese accent as he didn't start learning English until after he was in his '20s. But if you listen to the Loudness albums of the mid '80s, there was a definite pop sheen to them compared to their definite speed, almost thrash metal beginning. It would sound weird, granted, but it could work especially if Michael Anthony is still providing backup vocals. Also consider this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrokXxFD05I, which is from '89, so I think Niihara would fit right on in.
I think he could pull it off. Sure, he's got a thick Japanese accent as he didn't start learning English until after he was in his '20s. But if you listen to the Loudness albums of the mid '80s, there was a definite pop sheen to them compared to their definite speed, almost thrash metal beginning. It would sound weird, granted, but it could work especially if Michael Anthony is still providing backup vocals. Also consider this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrokXxFD05I, which is from '89, so I think Niihara would fit right on in.
Something else to consider, is that Niihara is relatively unknown in the mid to late '80s, whereas when Sammy Hagar joined Van Halen in OTL, he had already come from several successful solo albums as well as Montrose back in the early '70s, and was a much more established singer and persona. This being the case, I could definitely see both Van Halen considering bringing in Niihara, due to the fact that he wouldn't have as much of an ego compared to an established singer, and I could see Niihara seriously consider taking them up on the offer on the condition that they make music in the vein of Loudness' early albums, before trying to become more commercial and listening to their record company forced Niihara out of Loudness. A win win all around I'd say.
I'm uncertain about Thrash but I know EVH wanted a female vocalist. Maybe VH would have become more maudlin/dark pop with a technical side?
Considering the drama surrounding Doro Pesch's band Warlock during the late '80s, perhaps she just decides to end Warlock earlier than she did and is offered the role of frontwoman by EVH?
Hell, Sammy Hagar would be considered a man of few hits while DLR's solo career would follow OT...
Could this lead to a true reunion during the 'Me Wise Magic' of '96?
A female vocalist would certainly make this interesting.
Could this lead to a true reunion during the 'Me Wise Magic' of '96?
A female vocalist would certainly make this interesting.
It would depend on both how successful the band is with a new vocalist, and how well the band gels with the new vocalist. I'm sure Doro could handle the material, but I just don't see it being that great of a fit to be honest. And there aren't really any female vocalists that would fit into the band, save for maybe Stevie Nicks. Even then, it probably wouldn't work, not with everybody's egos in the way. Like I've said, probably the best vocalist for getting Van Halen into more of a metal/thrash direction, is Minoru Niihara. Who could very well handle the soft, sappy ballads, as well as thrash metal, and everything in between.
I still believe this may lead to Michael Anthony being kicked out. I mean, EVH was gonna replace him in '82!
Hmm... imagine if this causes the end of Van Halen? The new singer, Eddie's alcoholism and Alex's... uhh Alex-ness.
Would this make Van Halen III a solo album? (Or something like it? I must admit, I am a fan).
Hmm... imagine if this causes the end of Van Halen? The new singer, Eddie's alcoholism and Alex's... uhh Alex-ness.
Would this make Van Halen III a solo album? (Or something like it? I must admit, I am a fan).
