Mid-1960s music worst case scenario: Bob Dylan had gotten into a motorcycle accident in 1966, and that same year the Beatles were at a cross roads where, due to the overzealous insanity of Beatlemania, they decided not to tour and rumor was they were breaking up, and it seems that 1966 was indeed a likely possible time they could have broken up. So, here's the musical worst case scenario: what if Dylan died in his bike accident, and the Beatles actually did not just stop touring and get to work on Sgt. Pepper but actually broke up, all in 1966?
WI: 1966, Bob Dylan is Dead and the Beatles Break Up
- Thread starter Emperor Norton I
- Start date
Germaniac
Donor
Well if Sgt. Peppers doesn't get released it's possible that Brian Wilson won't have his mental breakdown, Thinking he was being outdone by the Beatles was a contributing factor. Without that the Beach Boys release SMiLE, and while it won't be as much of a hit as Sgt. Peppers it will have much of the same influential effect that it did. I actually think music will pretty much follow a similar path as it did OTL, but the Beach Boys and Brian Wilson taking the role of the Beatles through the later 60's. The pressure after to top SMiLE may kill Wilson though.
This could leave the way open for bands like Cream, Kinks, Bryds and even Buffalo Springfield. Rock and country-rock (Sweet Heart of the Rodeo- The Bryds, being the first one in '67 (if you haven't heard it, make sure you do)) come early. Elvis could be back on top. As for 'black' music I don't think much would happen with Motown, but Atlantic/Stax could be very different.
On the upside I wouldn't have spent so much money on their stuff.
On the upside I wouldn't have spent so much money on their stuff.
This could leave the way open for bands like Cream, Kinks, Bryds and even Buffalo Springfield. Rock and country-rock (Sweet Heart of the Rodeo- The Bryds, being the first one in '67 (if you haven't heard it, make sure you do)) come early. Elvis could be back on top. As for 'black' music I don't think much would happen with Motown, but Atlantic/Stax could be very different.
On the upside I wouldn't have spent so much money on their stuff.
This scenario leaves an opening for any singer-songwriter to grab Dylan's spot at the top of the tree.
Neil Young stands out as a good bet - he certainly knew how to write tunes that had commercial appeal, while also following his own muse (often to the detriment of his own success!) Sure, he really didn't get much solo success until the 1970s in OTL but that could pan out differently if the industry is keenly looking for a replacement for Dylan.
As for the Beatles breaking up, it does open doors for bands like the Hollies & The Byrds that could write very good guitar pop.
In OTL quite a few bands split-up or lost key members between 1966 & 1968.. maybe some notable instances of this don't happen in this timeline CSN never form because their members stay with their respective bands, or The Zombies staying together for longer (for a couple of examples)?
Then there's the question of what the Beatles do with their solo careers...
I suspect Lennon would be heartbroken and devastated for a while at Bob Dylan's death, which would exacerbate emotional problems he was having by 1966 where he wasn't sure what he was doing or what he wanted to do or be. These problems, mind you, are what allowed Paul to become so much of a leader in the Beatles after 1966; Lennon was less and less gung-ho and leading the group and more unsure if he even wanted to be a Beatle for a while, and Paul stepped up to try to be the cheerleader. Bob Dylan was Lennon's hero, and he was so into Dylan that "You Got to Hide Your Love Away" was Lennon doing Bob Dylan, and when he thought Dylan wrote a song that was criticizing him as ripping him off (I think the song was "Fourth Time Around" on "Blonde on Blonde"), it devastated Lennon. That is a paranoia born out of extreme admiration and love. So Bob Dylan's death would hurt Lennon as much as Lennon's death hurt his fans in 1980, and that would exacerbate Lennon's problems of the OTL, not to mention along with the Beatles splitting. That's a perfect storm of Lennon questioning everything and spiritually collapsing perhaps not to get back up. Christ, maybe this Lennon would feel that without Dylan, music was dead, and he said everything he wanted to say, and thus drop out of making music for a while if not forever.
EDIT: Btw, this may be a good way to get the "Lennon goes schizo like Syd Barret" scenario I had brought up many, many moons ago.
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It could be interesting to see if the Rolling Stones would still rolling in the 1970s like they did in OTL if the Beatles had break up in 1966?
The thing so far seems to be everyone thinks that the "If You Die, We All Move Up In Rank" trope holds true here, but the Rolling Stones are getting discussed too little. The Rolling Stones were the other giant group of this era, so a situation where the Beatles broke up in 1966 really requires discussion on what this does for and concerning the Rolling Stones. I just don't know enough about the Stones to say much.
Another idea I had, by the way: there exists the possibility that the Beatles will do some that other bands do all the time, but that they never did, which is reunite later, maybe break up later only to reunite again, maybe bring in other members, maybe lose the originals, and all that. That never happened with the Beatles, but it's happened with every band from that era that I can think of, and sometimes it's a total change where no one is left from the original except maybe Gary the Bass guitarist who joined after the first bass guitarist and all his replacements left or refused to join the reunited band. It's an interesting thought that the Beatles could be touched by that common thing they never ever were.
Well, the perception in some circles was that the Stones copied the Beatles to a certain degree.
- The 'We Love You' single following 'All You Need is Love'
- Their Satanic Majesties Request album following Sgt Pepper
- Street Fighting Man following the Beatle's 1968-protests inspired single Revolution.
etc etc.
But without the Beatles around, maybe the Rolling Stones don't get side-tracked into psychedelia and stay truer to basic rock?
I have this idea that in this TL John might have gone into nihilistic garage rock - think a cross between OTL's Plastic Ono Band & 'Nuggets' style fuzz. Maybe after the Beatles break up, he takes a break in the USA absorbing all he can from the counterculture & happens to see the Velvet Underground live?
I vote for this. Avant garde Lennon hanging out with Andy Warhol and John Cale. Love it.
According to a few sources, there was at least one near miss with Brian Epstein in 1966. Had he died then, assuming the account is accurate, that would have certainly have hurt the band moral. After the rest of the mess the tour that year was, Epstein 's death might have been enough for someone in the group to conclude that "The Beatles" were over. At the very least it would have put more strain on the band in 1967. Just thought I would point out another possible divergence here.
Here's how I think solo careers would go post 1966.
My sense is that Richard Starkey might have concentrated on acting at the time, probably appearing in a film or two in 1967 or 1968.
I think George Harrison probably just goes to India for awhile, not sure when he returns. When he does his solo efforts will be very explicitly religious in nature, and will not feature anything the band would have accepted. Not sure how it does.
Now here is the big tragedy. John Lennon. For all his complaints later on, in 1967 Lennon needed the group assuming the accounts I have read are indeed accurate. He was in a dark place then, suffering from what amounted to depression. Arguably he had been in that condition since 1965. He was not inclined to work, most accounts of the time period say that Lennon was zoned out a lot of the time, either on acid or watching television. In short, you can make the case that it was the pressure Paul McCartney put on Lennon at the time, the pressure involved in making the album, along with McCartney's collaborations with Lennon encouraging Lennon's creativity, that allowed Lennon to be as immensely creatively successful as he was in 1967. This is not by any means to discount Lennon's immense talent, only to say that the argument has been made that Lennon needed someone else to convince him to go to the studio where his instinct otherwise might be to stay at home. Here, there's no one to put pressure on Lennon to actually record, his depressed feeling is probably worse than it historically was, and he has absolutely no collaborator to encourage him. I can see him releasing some version of Strawberry Fields Forever as a single in 1967. After that, it's harder to say, though its conceivable that he doesn't record anything else in that year, admittedly, that's the darkest possibility. He isn't Syd Barrett, not exactly, for one thing, his chances of recovery are infinitely higher than Syd's. But 1967 could turn out to be a lost year for John Lennon. And when you consider what helped Lennon leave his 1967 pattern, namely meditation, is one he won't have here, there's no telling how long the lost year could last. Granted, Yoko Ono probably comes into his life earlier, and that might be a saving grace here, still, it could be bad, very bad.
Therefore, of all the members of the band, I think Paul McCartney was best positioned for a solo career in 1968, partially because he had both the talent and the drive to pursue one. However, with that said, the loss of the group would do a number to his moral, which could affect things in 1967 at least. McCartney's first solo effort might be delayed a bit longer than Pepper was. With that said, it will be much better than "McCartney" was in my opinion.
Here's how I think solo careers would go post 1966.
My sense is that Richard Starkey might have concentrated on acting at the time, probably appearing in a film or two in 1967 or 1968.
I think George Harrison probably just goes to India for awhile, not sure when he returns. When he does his solo efforts will be very explicitly religious in nature, and will not feature anything the band would have accepted. Not sure how it does.
Now here is the big tragedy. John Lennon. For all his complaints later on, in 1967 Lennon needed the group assuming the accounts I have read are indeed accurate. He was in a dark place then, suffering from what amounted to depression. Arguably he had been in that condition since 1965. He was not inclined to work, most accounts of the time period say that Lennon was zoned out a lot of the time, either on acid or watching television. In short, you can make the case that it was the pressure Paul McCartney put on Lennon at the time, the pressure involved in making the album, along with McCartney's collaborations with Lennon encouraging Lennon's creativity, that allowed Lennon to be as immensely creatively successful as he was in 1967. This is not by any means to discount Lennon's immense talent, only to say that the argument has been made that Lennon needed someone else to convince him to go to the studio where his instinct otherwise might be to stay at home. Here, there's no one to put pressure on Lennon to actually record, his depressed feeling is probably worse than it historically was, and he has absolutely no collaborator to encourage him. I can see him releasing some version of Strawberry Fields Forever as a single in 1967. After that, it's harder to say, though its conceivable that he doesn't record anything else in that year, admittedly, that's the darkest possibility. He isn't Syd Barrett, not exactly, for one thing, his chances of recovery are infinitely higher than Syd's. But 1967 could turn out to be a lost year for John Lennon. And when you consider what helped Lennon leave his 1967 pattern, namely meditation, is one he won't have here, there's no telling how long the lost year could last. Granted, Yoko Ono probably comes into his life earlier, and that might be a saving grace here, still, it could be bad, very bad.
Therefore, of all the members of the band, I think Paul McCartney was best positioned for a solo career in 1968, partially because he had both the talent and the drive to pursue one. However, with that said, the loss of the group would do a number to his moral, which could affect things in 1967 at least. McCartney's first solo effort might be delayed a bit longer than Pepper was. With that said, it will be much better than "McCartney" was in my opinion.
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Well Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band was Paul's baby...
ONCE UPON A TIME, IN A STUDIO FAR, FAR, AWAY...
As the back cover of a colourful new album reads. While the summer nears its close and the autumn leaves preparing to fall something new is on the horizon. All through the year, former Beatle Paul McCartney has been working on a new album, with a group of recruits including folk sensation Donovan, recent guitar sensation Jimi Hendrix and old bandmate Ringo Starr his intense sensations at Abbey Road have finished and amidst super security he's decided to give us a quick listen to the album, and it's a beauty. Even better, Paul has recorded a television special for the BBC this Christmas and we've been given some clips at the studios.
Using the concept of a 'fake' band as a disguise, McCartney has created 'Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band' amazingly named after mishearing someone ask for 'salt and pepper' on a aeroplane, the title track is a raucous rocker underpinned with lovely lead from Jimi Hendrix that even returns at the end for a tantalisingly speedy outro to the grand finale.
The next song is a dreamy piano number, from the film you can just see the piano rising above the clouds in a smokey dreamlike haze whilst Ringo plays the Fool on the Hill running around on the White Cliffs of Dover as the fog melds into the summer sun. The lyrics are full of wit and hark to the music hall era (which features prominently in this album) and recent contemporary Ray Davies.
We asked Paul about music hall, and he replied "Well, I just thought it's what I was brought up on, you know? It's all disappearing now, and its nice to show what you're influenced by, I wanted to make a big production number" and he's certainly achieved it. Lovely Rita continues the wry humour concerning the bane of every motorists life, a traffic warden, whilst the indignant Fixing and Hole (which features a mildly amusing clip) and the heartbreakingly critical She's Leaving Home revel in modern day domesticity. The latter is likely to become a critical delight as it closes side one in a thoughtful manner.
Side Two opens with biting guitar and hopeless optimism, counteracting the previous number like a cabaret revue. 'Getting Better' is a cheeky little pop song that, like almost all the ditties on here, could hit the top of the pops. When I'm 64 is a nice slice of whimsy with a sadder side, you could imagine it as a postcard of a seaside town which is exactly what the film shows us as reality fades into the past by use of technical camera wizardry.
Penny Lane is perhaps the album's star track, a worthy classic that harks back to Paul's childhood in Liverpool, providing some nice caricatures. As the album nears its close we gain the delightfully cheery Hello Goodbye complete with a fade out with chanting of 'Baby You're a Rich Man' (perhaps an unfinished song with a tune too good to waste) and finally the finale that really comes alive in the film that unfortunately you'll have to wait until Christmas to see. A big Hollywood musical number, it features song a dance routine to the elegiac music closer.
All in all, the album is one to look forward to that gets top marks from us. It could be listened to for many years to come with its romps through history, culture and a slice of observation. We give it the thumbs up!
Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band [EMI, Parlophone]
Release: September
As a side note - I'd love to write some form of alt history where The Beatles and The Kinks break up in '65 and Paul and Ray form a band. The Real Britpop
ONCE UPON A TIME, IN A STUDIO FAR, FAR, AWAY...
As the back cover of a colourful new album reads. While the summer nears its close and the autumn leaves preparing to fall something new is on the horizon. All through the year, former Beatle Paul McCartney has been working on a new album, with a group of recruits including folk sensation Donovan, recent guitar sensation Jimi Hendrix and old bandmate Ringo Starr his intense sensations at Abbey Road have finished and amidst super security he's decided to give us a quick listen to the album, and it's a beauty. Even better, Paul has recorded a television special for the BBC this Christmas and we've been given some clips at the studios.
Using the concept of a 'fake' band as a disguise, McCartney has created 'Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band' amazingly named after mishearing someone ask for 'salt and pepper' on a aeroplane, the title track is a raucous rocker underpinned with lovely lead from Jimi Hendrix that even returns at the end for a tantalisingly speedy outro to the grand finale.
The next song is a dreamy piano number, from the film you can just see the piano rising above the clouds in a smokey dreamlike haze whilst Ringo plays the Fool on the Hill running around on the White Cliffs of Dover as the fog melds into the summer sun. The lyrics are full of wit and hark to the music hall era (which features prominently in this album) and recent contemporary Ray Davies.
We asked Paul about music hall, and he replied "Well, I just thought it's what I was brought up on, you know? It's all disappearing now, and its nice to show what you're influenced by, I wanted to make a big production number" and he's certainly achieved it. Lovely Rita continues the wry humour concerning the bane of every motorists life, a traffic warden, whilst the indignant Fixing and Hole (which features a mildly amusing clip) and the heartbreakingly critical She's Leaving Home revel in modern day domesticity. The latter is likely to become a critical delight as it closes side one in a thoughtful manner.
Side Two opens with biting guitar and hopeless optimism, counteracting the previous number like a cabaret revue. 'Getting Better' is a cheeky little pop song that, like almost all the ditties on here, could hit the top of the pops. When I'm 64 is a nice slice of whimsy with a sadder side, you could imagine it as a postcard of a seaside town which is exactly what the film shows us as reality fades into the past by use of technical camera wizardry.
Penny Lane is perhaps the album's star track, a worthy classic that harks back to Paul's childhood in Liverpool, providing some nice caricatures. As the album nears its close we gain the delightfully cheery Hello Goodbye complete with a fade out with chanting of 'Baby You're a Rich Man' (perhaps an unfinished song with a tune too good to waste) and finally the finale that really comes alive in the film that unfortunately you'll have to wait until Christmas to see. A big Hollywood musical number, it features song a dance routine to the elegiac music closer.
All in all, the album is one to look forward to that gets top marks from us. It could be listened to for many years to come with its romps through history, culture and a slice of observation. We give it the thumbs up!
Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band [EMI, Parlophone]
Release: September
As a side note - I'd love to write some form of alt history where The Beatles and The Kinks break up in '65 and Paul and Ray form a band. The Real Britpop
The Rolling Stone Interview: Ray Davies and Paul McCartney
Rolling Stone #24 - December 21, 1968
Former Beatle Paul McCartney and Kinks front man Ray Davies joined forces last year, forming what some have termed a 'supergroup,' The Apple. The band's first album, "Revolution," was released in August, peaking at #2 on the Billboard Hot 100.
RS: So, Paul, Ray -- how did you two come to form The Apple?
PM: Well, it was... uh... [Laughs]
RD: [Laughing] Yeah, it was rather a giggle, weren't it? We, uh...
PM: Met at a party...
RD: A party, yes, at Mick [Jagger]'s... [He makes an "after you" bow to McCartney]
PM: We were at Mick's, I suppose it was New Years' Eve, '66...?
RD: Right.
PM: We were both, er, unattached, you might say. Jane [Asher] had broken up with me not long before, telling me I cared more about the [Beatles] splitting than I did about us...
RD: Bloody hell, I cared more about the Beatles breaking up than I did about me wife. She's told me so many times. [Laughs]
PM: Yeah, but your brother...
RD: Yeah, it's true. Dave [Davies, lead guitarist of The Kinks and Ray's brother] said I wasn't a rock and roller any more. He said "Well Respected Man" and "Sunny Afternoon" and those others were music hall shite and he'd had it. I rang him up last Christmas [1967] and we spoke for just a few minutes. Before that it had been almost a year.
So anyway, here we are, at Mick's, and he's playing an acetate of Between The Buttons, and everybody's had a few drinks, and somehow Paul and I wind up sitting across from each other in the parlor.
PM: We started making small talk, just, you know, 'How're you liking Manchester United this year?' That kind of stuff.
RD: And after a bit, I'd had an uncountable number of... well, let's just say it wasn't cherry cola. My inhibitions were just totally destroyed, you know, I could have asked Paul if he fancied a shag at that point --
PM: You did, actually. [Laughs]
RD: Did I? [Both laugh] No, but at one point I blurted out, "We should do a record together." And then I just froze, because, you know...
RS: You had just proposed making music with a Beatle.
PM: Ex-Beatle.
RS: Ex-Beatle, all right, but there are millions of people that will never think of you as anything other than "The Cute Beatle."
PM: It's why I'm growing the beard, innit? [Laughs]
RD: So he looks over at me, you know, and he's had a few, plus maybe some cannabis...
PM: Just a little.
RD: And he says, "Sure, why not?" And I...
RS: Were you shocked?
RD: Speechless. Utterly shocked fucking sober, y'know? It hit me that Paul fucking McCartney had just agreed to make a record with me...
PM: Hey, now, you act like it was a big thing. You're no slouch yourself. We're a good match. I have a rocker side, and a softer side... you know, "I'm Down" and "Eleanor Rigby," and Ray's much the same... "You Really Got Me" and [sings] "All The Day And All Of The Night," and then [sings, slapping out the beat on his knees] "'Cause he gets up in the morning, and he goes to work at nine / And he comes back home at five-thirty, gets the same train every time..."
RD: [Mock-faints] Oh, my god, Pauly's singing me song! [Both laugh]
PM: [Laughing] It's a mutual admiration society.
RS: So how did things develop?
PM: Well, initially I had been planning to do a solo record, just me, playing everything, you know, guitars, piano, drums...
RD: [Cockney accent] But not bass, guv'nor, you're rubbish on the bass.
PM: Right, we were gonna call in John Paul Jones. [Laughs] No, but at first we figured we'd just go into the studio, the two of us, and do it all, but the more we talked over the next few weeks, the more we felt we wanted a real band.
RS: So you started asking around...
PM: We started asking around, looking mainly for people who were able to play a couple of different instruments, you know, because sometimes I would want to play piano or guitar, you know, and Ray plays piano too...
RS: So you ended up with a nice group of musicians.
RD: Yeah, a good bunch of mates. A couple of Micks -- oops, that sounds like I'm anti-Irish, I swear I have nothing against the wee leprechauns... Mick Avory on drums, who's been with me since the Kinks began, Mick Taylor on guitar, who we lured away from John Mayall with lurid promises of promiscuous sex and drugs... [Laughs]
PM: Mick Taylor plays bass as well.
RD: Right. And then there's Nicky Hopkins, who plays piano better than God Almighty. [Laughs]
RS: And there are rumors of a second album?
PM: Dirty rumours, spread by leprechauns! [Laughs] No, it's true. We're still sort of in the middle of wrapping it up, but we've agreed to share a bit about it.
RD: We've got enough material done to make it a two-record set.
RS: So, a double album.
PM: Yes, a double set.
RS: Did you write many of the songs together?
RD: It's a fairly even split... at this point there are twenty songs, and we feel like we need perhaps ten more. At this point, Paul's written eight, I wrote six and the two of us worked together on the other six.
RS: Can you share any song titles?
PM: I have a couple of rockers, "Back In The U.S.S.R." and a really heavy number called "Helter Skelter" that sounds like we're breaking our guitars. A few acoustic tunes... uh...
RD: "Blackbird." I love that one.
PM: Yeah, "Blackbird," and "Mother Nature's Son." And Ray has a fantastic new song called "Dead End Street" that I love.
RD: Thank you, sir. And I am quite fond of your song, "You Know I Will."
PM: See, I told you, mutual admiration society.
RD: Should've just called the bloody group "Mutual Admiration Society." [Both laughing] Or "The Circle Jerks." [More laughter]
RS: And then you co-wrote several songs?
PM: Right. Hmm, there's "Riverside," and "Drawing A Blank," uh...
RD: "Linda Lou," "Sixty-Four Is Not Too Old For Love," and my favorite, "I'm In Love With The Meter Reader."
RS: Do you have a title for the new record yet?
The two men look at each other, smiles playing across their lips.
PM: Should we tell?
RD: Naw, we need money first.
PM: [Smiling] Oh, well, there is that.
RD: Go ahead.
PM: We're thinking of releasing it -- and the record company is livid about this, but... we're talking about a plain white sleeve with nothing on it. No title, no photos...
RD: Like, the blank album, or something.
RS: You don't think that'd confuse people?
PM: I'd like to give our fans a bit more credit than that. -RS-
Rolling Stone #24 - December 21, 1968
Former Beatle Paul McCartney and Kinks front man Ray Davies joined forces last year, forming what some have termed a 'supergroup,' The Apple. The band's first album, "Revolution," was released in August, peaking at #2 on the Billboard Hot 100.
RS: So, Paul, Ray -- how did you two come to form The Apple?
PM: Well, it was... uh... [Laughs]
RD: [Laughing] Yeah, it was rather a giggle, weren't it? We, uh...
PM: Met at a party...
RD: A party, yes, at Mick [Jagger]'s... [He makes an "after you" bow to McCartney]
PM: We were at Mick's, I suppose it was New Years' Eve, '66...?
RD: Right.
PM: We were both, er, unattached, you might say. Jane [Asher] had broken up with me not long before, telling me I cared more about the [Beatles] splitting than I did about us...
RD: Bloody hell, I cared more about the Beatles breaking up than I did about me wife. She's told me so many times. [Laughs]
PM: Yeah, but your brother...
RD: Yeah, it's true. Dave [Davies, lead guitarist of The Kinks and Ray's brother] said I wasn't a rock and roller any more. He said "Well Respected Man" and "Sunny Afternoon" and those others were music hall shite and he'd had it. I rang him up last Christmas [1967] and we spoke for just a few minutes. Before that it had been almost a year.
So anyway, here we are, at Mick's, and he's playing an acetate of Between The Buttons, and everybody's had a few drinks, and somehow Paul and I wind up sitting across from each other in the parlor.
PM: We started making small talk, just, you know, 'How're you liking Manchester United this year?' That kind of stuff.
RD: And after a bit, I'd had an uncountable number of... well, let's just say it wasn't cherry cola. My inhibitions were just totally destroyed, you know, I could have asked Paul if he fancied a shag at that point --
PM: You did, actually. [Laughs]
RD: Did I? [Both laugh] No, but at one point I blurted out, "We should do a record together." And then I just froze, because, you know...
RS: You had just proposed making music with a Beatle.
PM: Ex-Beatle.
RS: Ex-Beatle, all right, but there are millions of people that will never think of you as anything other than "The Cute Beatle."
PM: It's why I'm growing the beard, innit? [Laughs]
RD: So he looks over at me, you know, and he's had a few, plus maybe some cannabis...
PM: Just a little.
RD: And he says, "Sure, why not?" And I...
RS: Were you shocked?
RD: Speechless. Utterly shocked fucking sober, y'know? It hit me that Paul fucking McCartney had just agreed to make a record with me...
PM: Hey, now, you act like it was a big thing. You're no slouch yourself. We're a good match. I have a rocker side, and a softer side... you know, "I'm Down" and "Eleanor Rigby," and Ray's much the same... "You Really Got Me" and [sings] "All The Day And All Of The Night," and then [sings, slapping out the beat on his knees] "'Cause he gets up in the morning, and he goes to work at nine / And he comes back home at five-thirty, gets the same train every time..."
RD: [Mock-faints] Oh, my god, Pauly's singing me song! [Both laugh]
PM: [Laughing] It's a mutual admiration society.
RS: So how did things develop?
PM: Well, initially I had been planning to do a solo record, just me, playing everything, you know, guitars, piano, drums...
RD: [Cockney accent] But not bass, guv'nor, you're rubbish on the bass.
PM: Right, we were gonna call in John Paul Jones. [Laughs] No, but at first we figured we'd just go into the studio, the two of us, and do it all, but the more we talked over the next few weeks, the more we felt we wanted a real band.
RS: So you started asking around...
PM: We started asking around, looking mainly for people who were able to play a couple of different instruments, you know, because sometimes I would want to play piano or guitar, you know, and Ray plays piano too...
RS: So you ended up with a nice group of musicians.
RD: Yeah, a good bunch of mates. A couple of Micks -- oops, that sounds like I'm anti-Irish, I swear I have nothing against the wee leprechauns... Mick Avory on drums, who's been with me since the Kinks began, Mick Taylor on guitar, who we lured away from John Mayall with lurid promises of promiscuous sex and drugs... [Laughs]
PM: Mick Taylor plays bass as well.
RD: Right. And then there's Nicky Hopkins, who plays piano better than God Almighty. [Laughs]
RS: And there are rumors of a second album?
PM: Dirty rumours, spread by leprechauns! [Laughs] No, it's true. We're still sort of in the middle of wrapping it up, but we've agreed to share a bit about it.
RD: We've got enough material done to make it a two-record set.
RS: So, a double album.
PM: Yes, a double set.
RS: Did you write many of the songs together?
RD: It's a fairly even split... at this point there are twenty songs, and we feel like we need perhaps ten more. At this point, Paul's written eight, I wrote six and the two of us worked together on the other six.
RS: Can you share any song titles?
PM: I have a couple of rockers, "Back In The U.S.S.R." and a really heavy number called "Helter Skelter" that sounds like we're breaking our guitars. A few acoustic tunes... uh...
RD: "Blackbird." I love that one.
PM: Yeah, "Blackbird," and "Mother Nature's Son." And Ray has a fantastic new song called "Dead End Street" that I love.
RD: Thank you, sir. And I am quite fond of your song, "You Know I Will."
PM: See, I told you, mutual admiration society.
RD: Should've just called the bloody group "Mutual Admiration Society." [Both laughing] Or "The Circle Jerks." [More laughter]
RS: And then you co-wrote several songs?
PM: Right. Hmm, there's "Riverside," and "Drawing A Blank," uh...
RD: "Linda Lou," "Sixty-Four Is Not Too Old For Love," and my favorite, "I'm In Love With The Meter Reader."
RS: Do you have a title for the new record yet?
The two men look at each other, smiles playing across their lips.
PM: Should we tell?
RD: Naw, we need money first.
PM: [Smiling] Oh, well, there is that.
RD: Go ahead.
PM: We're thinking of releasing it -- and the record company is livid about this, but... we're talking about a plain white sleeve with nothing on it. No title, no photos...
RD: Like, the blank album, or something.
RS: You don't think that'd confuse people?
PM: I'd like to give our fans a bit more credit than that. -RS-
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Nice one, giving Paul a foil for his songwriting & keeping a hard edge to The Kinks at the same time (after all, Paul has one hell of a rock voice..)
The real wildcard in this timeline is George Harrison. 1966 marks the start of a real golden spell for his songwriting.
George spent some time with Bob Dylan & the Band in late 1968 just hanging out & jamming.. maybe something more formal develops in this timeline with a dead Dylan? An alternate timeline-Basement tapes, anyone??
Following more on Dylan's death, I wonder how this would have affected the Folk/Topical Song movement? Phil Ochs always appeared to feel that he was living in Dylan's shadow, would Dylan's death left him feeling more secure, that is, considering he apparently had Manic - Depressive illness . . .
Just thinking out loud, as it were . . .
And how would it have affected Joan Baez' career? Others?
bobinleipsic
Just thinking out loud, as it were . . .
And how would it have affected Joan Baez' career? Others?
bobinleipsic
Phil Ochs is an interesting character.
In OTL 1966 he hadn't yet had his optimism crushed. The rot would really start to set-in after the horrors of 1968 - especially the Democratic Convention.
It's hard to wave-away the turmoil of that year, but with a producer moving him towards less overtly political music maybe he becomes less emotionally invested in politics? Getting on the bad side of Nixon was not a good idea - let alone his interest in early 1970s Chilean politics. The crushing of Allende's Government was another big blow for Ochs.
Maybe in this timeline, rather than actually going to Africa he befriends & records music with African musicians in the USA? It would avoid the assault that ruined his voice & accelerated his decline. It might also put him into a pioneering role in the genre of World Music.
Would a Woodstock-type event happen somewhere else with an equally stellar line-up, large crowd & cultural impact?
It would be especially interesting if it happened near Detroit & the line-up included a few local bands.
All of a sudden you get major publicity for any number of high-energy 'proto punk' bands.