Successful Andronikos Komnenos?

Tongera

How to make Andronikos Komnenos a successful Emperor? The challenges for this POD require him to be Emperor to 1190 at the least, the Angelos to remain out of power and for the Normans to be thrown out of Greece.

See what you can do.
 

Herzen's love-child

Have his pet policy of exterminating the aristocracy somehow find resonance with both the Church and the professional military and throw in popular support from the populace at large. Points if his general paranoia is held in check.
It also probably helps him if he doesn't collude with and generally tones down (if not altogether prevent) the Massacre of the Latins in 1182.
OTL he created far too many enemies for his own good and his psychological make-up was not conducive for effective and popular rulership.
 

Tongera

Herzen's love-child said:
OTL he created far too many enemies for his own good and his psychological make-up was not conducive for effective and popular rulership.
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1. Maybe not seen as popular, but seen as doing what is right (from the standards of the time) and correct instead of the popular way?
 

Elfwine

Tongera said:
1. Maybe not seen as popular, but seen as doing what is right (from the standards of the time) and correct instead of the popular way?
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The problem is that the kind of unpopular what he was doing was the kind that isn't associated with being right. To paraphrase Machiavelli, a ruler should make himself feared, not hated.

Also, on the issue of the support of the professional military - that's kind of tied at least to some extent to the aristocracy.
 

Tongera

Elfwine said:
The problem is that the kind of unpopular what he was doing was the kind that isn't associated with being right. To paraphrase Machiavelli, a ruler should make himself feared, not hated.

Also, on the issue of the support of the professional military - that's kind of tied at least to some extent to the aristocracy.
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1. I know, but maybe build on from there?

2. Clearly he needs to stop his extermination of the aristocracy then if he wants to stay in power.
 

Elfwine

Tongera said:
1. I know, but maybe build on from there?

2. Clearly he needs to stop his extermination of the aristocracy then if he wants to stay in power.
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1) From where?

2) Eeyup.

Now, he can still crack down on corruption and the like - it's the actions less like Basil II and more like Vlad the Impaler that made him hated.

There's another problem, and this rests heavily on the qualities of his sons - Andronicus is pretty old. Still healthy as a horse, but I doubt he has more than ten years.

Whether this is a big deal or not I don't know, but it needs to be considered.
 

Tongera

Elfwine said:
1) From where?

2) Eeyup.

Now, he can still crack down on corruption and the like - it's the actions less like Basil II and more like Vlad the Impaler that made him hated.

There's another problem, and this rests heavily on the qualities of his sons - Andronicus is pretty old. Still healthy as a horse, but I doubt he has more than ten years.

Whether this is a big deal or not I don't know, but it needs to be considered.
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1. Build on from his corruption fighting, try and save Thessaloniki from being sacked etc.

2. Andronikos bloodlust and paranoia either needs to go or he needs to keep it in check/control himself.
 

Elfwine

Tongera said:
1. Build on from his corruption fighting, try and save Thessaloniki from being sacked etc.

2. Andronikos bloodlust and paranoia either needs to go or he needs to keep it in check/control himself.
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1) Shouldn't be impossible. At his best he was a potentially good emperor.

2) Not sure how to get either. Up until he was on the throne, as far as I know, there was no sign of either.
 

Tongera

Elfwine said:
1) Shouldn't be impossible. At his best he was a potentially good emperor.

2) Not sure how to get either. Up until he was on the throne, as far as I know, there was no sign of either.
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1. Agreed, he had potential.

2. Any source on why possibly?
 

Avitus

To the best of my knowledge Andronikos' eldest son (Manuel I think) was a decent military leader and lacked his father's paranoia. On the other hand, he didn't seem to be anything special, and the fact that he was killed during the purging of his father's regime shows a potential lack of ability to respond to changes, but as I have said, a corpse would have been a better emperor than Alexios III, so I doubt that that in the 10-20 years left in his natural life that Andronikos' son could destroy the empire nearly as totally as OTL. Looking further ahead, you have Alexios and David, OTL rulers of Trebizond to look forward to, who were very capable and once again not crazy, so by then things are looking up for the empire I believe.

As to why Andronokos went into a paranoid frenzy in the first place, one can only guess, though it could have to do with his own muder of Alexios II. Rather than make Andronikos change his policies, it may be easier for him to just die or be incapacitated by disease than to make him successful, an then hope for the best from his son.
 

Herzen's love-child

Avitus said:
Looking further ahead, you have Alexios and David, OTL rulers of Trebizond to look forward to, who were very capable and once again not crazy, so by then things are looking up for the empire I believe.
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But, then again, they had a special secret weapon: beautiful nubile daughters who were strategically married off to great diplomatic effect....:D
 
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