United European Colonialism

Lets say that Europe is united when it discovers the Americas. Perhaps Rome never fell. Perhaps Charlemagne (and successors) did better. Whatever. Assume that technology at the time of discovery is on par with OTL at the time of discovery.

How do you think things would go? Would their be increased colonization, or decreased? On the one hand, you've got a much large population to draw from (and many who would like to flee whatever Empire is ruling things), but there's also less competition. Of course, areas with lots of gold/silver/etc. will be taken early, regardless (if possible, of course).

Dominus,

Having one large polity tends to lead to stagnation. For example, if there was ONE European power (say, some sort of Hapsburg ascendancy), they could have rejected Columbus and he would have been screwed. However, since there were several competing states, he just went around until he found one. Same with someone looking for a patron for a certain sort of technology. Perhaps whoever rules Europe simply isn't interested...

Of course, if this hypothetical someone is oppressive enough, there might be many desperate people willing to risk sailing unknown seas to get away. The united-Europe people might follow to keep their tax base from escaping.

Matt Quinn said:

Dominus,

Having one large polity tends to lead to stagnation. For example, if there was ONE European power (say, some sort of Hapsburg ascendancy), they could have rejected Columbus and he would have been screwed. However, since there were several competing states, he just went around until he found one. Same with someone looking for a patron for a certain sort of technology. Perhaps whoever rules Europe simply isn't interested...

Of course, if this hypothetical someone is oppressive enough, there might be many desperate people willing to risk sailing unknown seas to get away. The united-Europe people might follow to keep their tax base from escaping.

Click to expand...

Lets assume that the Empire does send an expedition out to the New World.

"Lets assume that the Empire does send an expedition out to the New World."

All right, that's kinda the whole point of the thread. What's this expedition's motivation? Here're some ideas of mine...

1) Roman Empire conquers to Oder. Able to defeat most of their enemies, they get REALLY decadent, nasty, and totalitarian and a new Spartacus arises. The Imperial armies drive him and his people to the coast after a grueling civil war and, rather than be crucified en masse, they hijack a bunch of ships and flee West. The Romans assume they all die, but decades later, some drifting fishermen come back with reports of quasi-Roman settlers in the West (presumably Newfoundland). The rulers of Rome, eager to give the armies something to do and show that they CANNOT be beaten, ever, send the Legions west to crush this example of successful escape from their control.

2) Ever read "Journeys to Fusang"? The premise is that the more successful Mongols wreck Europe so that it never looks outward. Here's a twist...the Mongols establish some sort of truly vicious regime, and thus we have the same refugee problem. The Mongols send out the Horde, in fleets conscripted from subjected maritime states, to deal with these runaway taxpayers and turn their Western settlements into pasturelands for their horses.

The fleeing refugees AND the military forces sent to re-subjugate them can both count as "United Europe" colonialism, right?

Why not?

A united Europe vs a united Islam? They decide to send a ship out looking for a way past the Islamic empire to the spices, silk, and wootz of the East?
Without a bunch of pirates and privateers to slow them down, they could send lots of soldiers and traders and missionaries to the New World. But would they let the jesus freaks that formed the core of America come here? Or would they do as the Spanish, Portuguese, and French did and try desperately to keep the heretics out?