Winston Smith
Banned
Say I was a merchant in Bavaria and I wanted to travel to trade to Brandenburg, how hard would it be? Did each statelet have the ability to level tolls and things?
How hard was trade in the HRE?
- Thread starter Winston Smith
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I assume so, with different taxes for sold goods etc. But some things would be the same, due to being part of the HRE.
Well, I don't know that much, but I do know that it varied significantly by era. In the early years of the HRE, till the Protestant Reformation, it wouldn't have been much more difficult than anywhere else in Europe. France at this time still had internal tolls and taxes that made intra-French trade difficult. So did Germany.
After the Protestant Reformation and the Thirty Years War, it would have gotten much harder. From there, a long, slow decline in difficulty until an eventual elimination of nearly all tariffs by the mid-19th century.
This is based on my current AP Euro class, which I'm afraid hasn't provided me with many details. We need an actual expert, of which I'm sure there are some on the board.
Cheers,
Ganesha
Max Sinister
Banned
There definitely were many tolls, taxes and laws in the different states. Hell, even in the bigger states like Prussia there were many internal tolls.
Yes each state, and within each state each city or noble had the capacity to level tolls, passages rights etc as long he could enforce it.
Now, you had limitations to that.
1) States and statelets that depended of trade didn't saw well rivals slowing it. Agreements or use of force could be made to "convince" someone that its tolls were defenitly too high.
2) The taxes weren't bleeding : after all (except for annoying a rival that could have benefitted from traffic) states/nobles/cities were dependent of a good flux in order to have regular taxes.
3) Agreements could be done with merchants (in general, by protecting them or in particular, with some houses) that could balance the taxation.
Finally, the trade was so "hard" that Germany became the main trade road of Western Europa as soon the Northern Alps could be crossed more easily for merchants.
Max Sinister
Banned
I once read a comedy from 19th century Germany where the mayor states that he deliberately doesn't repair the street, so the carts and carriages and merchants and other travellers get damaged, and they'll have to stay in the small town to get everything fixed, leaving money in the town.
Max Sinister
Banned
Hey, it's a comedy after all. And it leads to trouble when some influential guy has an accident because of this.
I´m not that well informed about the Middle Ages.
But it was pretty bad in the early modern times (1500-1800).
First you have several hundred principalities in the HRE. Each with its own laws, taxes and tolls. Going from larger principalities like Austria, Bavaria, Saxony or Brandenburg down to Imperial towns, monasteries and Imperial Knight territories consisting of just a few square miles.
Not to mention that different regions used different measurement units.
Now before railroads the cheapest and easiest way to transport goods was by river if possible.
The famous German artist Albrecht Duerer mentioned in a letter 1520 a river journey from Bamberg to Frankfurt downriver the river Main. A distance of roughly 220 miles, took 6 days. They passed 26 toll stations!
On average that´s a toll station every 8.5 miles!
Plus there are ancient rights. For example a town could have gotten by Imperial decree the right of "Stapelrecht". Any river boat transporting goods has to stop there, unload the goods and offer it for sale to the local merchants. Only after a certain time period - often 3 days - could the merchant reload his remaining goods and resume his journey.
(Some towns allowed to avoid this staple right. In return for a fee paid.)
Or for example a town might have gotten the exclusive right by Imperial decree for the use of a river in its territory. The town of Heilbronn and the river Neckar is one such example. What did they do once they got that right? They closed down one of the two arms of the river Neckar, forcing all water to flow through the river arm closest to Heilbronn. Then they built a weir across the river to drive water mills.
Pretty nice for Heilbronn but it closed the river at that point for water transport. You had to unload your boat, transport the goods through Heilbronn and reload on another boat on the other side of the weir.
Heilbronn refused for a long time to build a lock.
Now consider all three things together.
Lots of toll stations. Even if you had to pay only a little it adds up on a longer journey. Not to mention the time loss because you had to stop at each one.
The staple right. Loss of time and loss of money (fees) or goods.
Local rights making a river impassable. Once again a loss of time.
Transport over land was slower and more expensive. You have to pass toll stations too. And depending on the time period you face the danger of robbers so traveling in a larger group with protection would make sense.
Of course a lot depends on the time period. Which century are we talking about? Brandenburg in the 16th and 17th century is smaller than 18th century Brandenburg / Prussia for example (number of borders to cross)?
And what do you want to sell? A small freight which might be transported overland exclusively? Or is it a larger freight where river transport - wherever possible - would be preferred?
What kind of merchant are you? Rich, influential, well connected, wide ranging trade network? That would certainly ease things.
Or a middle class merchant trying for the first time to sell things in "far away" Brandenburg? Then be ready to spend some time and money on your journey.
Edit:
And where exactly are you located in Bavaria? That might influence the best route too.
The Hanseatic League (mainly made up of Free Imperial Cities, i.e. HRE cities which owed allegiance only to the Emperor) existed largely for the purpose of facilitating trade by removing or bypassing internal barriers. I'm not familiar with a lot of the details, but I get the impression that trade with or amongst Hanseatic member cities was much freer than was the norm elsewhere in Europe. At the peak of Hansa reach and influence (roughly 1350-1450), this constituted much of the long-distance trade within the Empire (I suspect "most of" would be more accurate, but I'm playing it safe with "much of" because I don't have figures handy).
This is a well known caricature from the early 19th century depicting the absurdities of the tariff situation in the German Confederation prior the establishment of the Zollverein.
The merchant is argueing with the Lippean customs officer: "You see, officer, that I have nothing to declare, since what's in the back of the cart has not yet crossed the Lippean border, in the middle there's nothing and what's in the front is already beyond the Lippean border once again."
The principality of Schaumburg-Lippe was one of the more than 300 independent territories and free cities in the HRE and one of the few microstates that did survive the German Mediatisation in 1803 and existed until it was merged into Lower Saxony in 1946.
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Another thing that's scary is that each little statelet, or even some towns/markets had their own system of weights and measures. There were likely over a hundred 'feet' and 'pounds' (or equivalents).
Hhmm, sound like this might be a good field for a centralising Emperor to intervene in. Standardising weights and measurements is just common sense, increasing trade is good for everyone especially the government, and by forcing states to relinquish their rights to levy tolls also has the added bonus of depriving them of resources that could be used against him and his policies. Will have to give this some thought.
Theorically yes. In fact, really quickly, mesures were standardized.
I'll give you an exemple outside HRE, because it's the one I know best about details, but it's roughly comparable to the XII situation in Germany and Italy :
While the city of Albi had its own money, its own weight mesures, you had a quick uniformisation since the XII century.
Basically, all the money present were easily convertibles, a house existed with "official" weights mesures of different places, etc.
Finally, in a region between Atlantic and Alps, you had maybe 5/6 systems existing, and being really close to each other.
The situation was more or less the same everywhere in Europe, even if the later HRE didn't had an unifying economical and political force able to enforce an uniformisation of mesures, wheights and money as you had with the royal rule in France.
Still, depending of the balance of power, due of the similarities of cultural customs and economic background, the differences were minor and clearly not a primary obstacle to trade.
Furthermore, the most powerful states quickly imposed their money (de facto or even by treaty) to neighbours. Florin, Ducat, Sol, Thaler...used in all Europe and accepted by many.
It depends.
Basically you´re alright if you specify in all your contracts the units and currencies used. An inexperienced newcomer though might forget it sometimes.
Money:
In the early HRE they used mainly Byzantine coins, coins from Northern Italy and coins minted in Imperial HRE mints. For example in the Harz mountain region with its gold and silver mining. Say up to and including the High Middle Age.
Later on some of the Electors and Imperial towns become powerful enough to mint their own money. Still the HRE tried to keep a unified money system up to 1566. That´s when the last empire-wide coin regulations were accepted.
1 Reichsthaler (Imperial Thaler with specified silver content) = 68 Kreuzer
But even at that time coins named Gulden were heavily used in Southern Germany while the Rhineland and Hanseatic League towns used Mark coins.
With smaller copper coins named Batzen, Heller or Groschen used regionally.
However that wasn´t a real problem. The worth of a coin depended on its gold, silver or copper content. So in peace times, a coin from a trusted (foreign) mint could be exchanged into local currency relatively easily. The money changer (and hopefully Winston Smith, the merchant
) knew the silver content of the coins and thus converting was possible. There could be a problem if you arrived with some local lesser known coins.Not to mention that a smart merchant, involved in European trade or trade from Bavaria to Brandenburg would take care to specify the currency used in his written buy or sell orders.
Measure of length (in German):
Totally not regulated.
There were at least 132 definitions for an "Elle" (cubit, ell?) in the HRE. From 0.325 meters in Kulm up to 0.777 meters in Vienna. Or 1 Fuß (foot)(=Schuh). 0.162 meters to 0.316 meters.
Quite some difference, I´d say.
So if you´re selling or buying fabric for example mentioning the standard / origin of your measurement unit used would be smart.
It´s the same for square measurements, volume measurements and weight measurements.
A "Morgen" of land can vary between 2500 square meters in Hamburg and 5779 in Kulm. And if you sell grain, keep in mind that a "Scheffel" can vary between 38.89 liters in Mecklenburg (Baltic coast) and 222.36 liters in Bavaria.
And a "Pfund" can weight between 467 and 560 grams.
That´s why I asked some questions in my earlier post.
Which century? Which trade goods? Where´s the starting location and the end location? And what kind of merchant is Winston Smith trying to be?
I mean there´s a difference for example trying to trade with the town of Berlin in 1400 when it was a Hanseatic League member town or trying to trade with Berlin in 1620 during the 30 year war.