Could the Germans have sucessfully invaded and occupied Switzerland?

Titus_Pullo · Dec 4, 2012

The Swiss terrain is not idea for blizkrieg, too mountainous and the Swiss built an elaborate defense system and fortifications using those mountains. If the Germans have invaded I am guessing German casualties would be been very high and the resources involved in occupying the country would have forced them to withdraw. What do you think?

Simon · Dec 4, 2012

I don't think it would of provided them with an insurmountable problem, provided they considered it important enough to use the resources and take the casualties necessary to do so. The big question is how bloody it would get and what would make the Germans feel it was necessary to do so.

Alex Richards · Dec 4, 2012

I'd say they could occupy the lowlands- Zurich, Bern, Geneva and so forth, very easily.

However, control over the Highlands would be much more tenuous/non-existant. I could well see a situation where the country is nominally pacified, but where the Alpine Passes are very, very heavily defended in order to be usable, and where they're essentially safe lanes through hostile territory.

The Red · Dec 4, 2012

Would have been similar to the Winter War, they could have done it if they had thrown all their weight on the Swiss but at the end of the day it wasn't worth it. The Germans and Italians were getting more from a neutral Switzerland than an occupied one.

Matt · Dec 4, 2012

Alex Richards said:
I'd say they could occupy the lowlands- Zurich, Bern, Geneva and so forth, very easily.

However, control over the Highlands would be much more tenuous/non-existant. I could well see a situation where the country is nominally pacified, but where the Alpine Passes are very, very heavily defended in order to be usable, and where they're essentially safe lanes through hostile territory.

As, iirc, Swiss defensive plans readily conceded as defenseless anyways. The plans always called for the Swiss to retreat to the Alp passes and use them to form a redoubt to resist the Nazis. I have little doubt the Germans would eventually win, but it would be a campaign that essentially lasts as long as the Swiss have supplies. And since manpower was always an issue for them, it becomes a matter of where these troops come from, and what impact that has.

Color-Copycat · Dec 4, 2012

The Red said:
Would have been similar to the Winter War, they could have done it if they had thrown all their weight on the Swiss but at the end of the day it wasn't worth it. The Germans and Italians were getting more from a neutral Switzerland than an occupied one.

Yes, it was a convenient place for Allied and Axis spies to conduct their cloak-and-dagger business with one another.

ivanotter · Dec 5, 2012

Why would they?

Switzerland produced essential war material for Germany and all its factories were off-limits to Allied bombing as a neutral country.

Same with Sweden.

Ivan

Enigmajones · Dec 5, 2012

ivanotter said:
Why would they?

Switzerland produced essential war material for Germany and all its factories were off-limits to Allied bombing as a neutral country.

Same with Sweden.

Ivan

I believe it's more of a thought exercise then anything else.

Dr. Luny · Dec 5, 2012

I doubt the Swiss would really have lasted very long. Their army was relatively small, inexperienced, and lacking in mobility and heavy weapons. My guess is they would surrender as soon as the Germans seized most of the major cities and chased the remaining forces to the mountain redoubts. Some pockets of resistance might hold out for a while longer, but it wouldn't take that long for German numbers and heavy weapons to deal with them. Swiss soldiers will perceive the war as lost once the major cities are taken, regardless of the plans of their commanders. There's no point in throwing away your life if there's no hope of victory.

Cook · Dec 5, 2012

Titus_Pullo said:
The Swiss terrain is not ideal for blizkrieg...

Neither was the terrain of Yugoslavia and Greece.

ivanotter said:
Why would they?

Because they had a population of 4 million people, 60% of whom were ethnic Germans.

Life In Black · Dec 5, 2012

Cook said:
Neither was the terrain of Yugoslavia and Greece.

By that logic, if you could get the Italians to attack first and fuck everything up, than Germany would have no problem at all.

hairysamarian · Dec 5, 2012

ivanotter said:
Why would they?

Switzerland produced essential war material for Germany and all its factories were off-limits to Allied bombing as a neutral country.

Same with Sweden.

Ivan

More importantly, Switzerland was a financial conduit to the outside world. But as a thought exercise, the question is reasonable. And the answer probably is, "Yes, but at greater cost (in more ways than one) than it would have been worth."

BigWillyG · Dec 5, 2012

I could see partisan activity in Switzerland being on par with that in Yugoslavia. Any groups in Switzerland who the Germans could put in the Ustasha role?

LostCosmonaut · Dec 5, 2012

BigWillyG said:
I could see partisan activity in Switzerland being on par with that in Yugoslavia. Any groups in Switzerland who the Germans could put in the Ustasha role?

Possibly the French-speaking minority?

BigWillyG · Dec 5, 2012

LostCosmonaut said:
Possibly the French-speaking minority?

Would they support being combined with Vichy France? Was their any "Greater Germany" feeling among the German speakers like there was in the Sudetenland?

Color-Copycat · Dec 5, 2012

Why would Vichy France be allowed to administer the Francophone cantons of Switzerland? That's like asking Occupied Belgium if they would like to be governed by Vichy.

kalamona · Dec 5, 2012

BigWillyG said:
Would they support being combined with Vichy France? Was their any "Greater Germany" feeling among the German speakers like there was in the Sudetenland?

Nope, not at all.

kalamona · Dec 5, 2012

BigWillyG said:
I could see partisan activity in Switzerland being on par with that in Yugoslavia. Any groups in Switzerland who the Germans could put in the Ustasha role?

Like Yugoslavia? You mean a practical civil war with multiple sides? Well, not likely.
Partisan activity/resistance level would be low and would have been concentrated around the routes to italy (mostly information gathering) - and yes, i think, the germans would have occupied Switzerland if they wanted to.
Once they were surrounded by enemies, why would they held out? To inflict heavy casualities to the enemy, by the means of decimating their own? The swiss redoubt was a well backed bluff, but simply not worth it- and the swiss are pragmatic people. They would never accept the occupation, but they are patient folk.

ivanotter · Dec 5, 2012

Sorry, I was not trying to be snotty.

Successfully invaded, yes, but maybe not successfully occupied. Same as with Denmark. Great success invading, but not so easy to administer if the population is not for it.

Ivan

God-Eater of the Marshes · Dec 5, 2012

I think the Germans would've eventually won, but at a very high cost. The Swiss fortifications were very dense and much more heavily armed than any other fortification systems of its time.

While Switzerland's standing army was small, their strength would have been amplified manyfold by their fortifications and their incredible capability of enfilade. One of the great advantages that the Swiss defence system had was that most of their fortresses, guns (and they did have heavy guns - 120mms for example) et cetera were built on areas that were very inaccessible to infantry attack and completely inaccessible to any sort of motorised attack. You'd see a lot of Thermopylae-type scenarios if the Germans tried to attack the actual Redoubt itself.

I don't think it would have been a cakewalk for the Germans, even with the major population centers down. As for the Swiss "giving up", you have to remember that the Swiss are a very nationalistic breed of people and would've likely carried out an effective resistance as long as supplies lasted, which would have been quite a while. They would not have accepted a peaceful Anschluss.