Greater Soviet Involvement in Vietnam

In the OTL Vietnam War, it was the US that sent forces and equipment in large numbers to help the South fight the North. Is it possible for the USSR to do what the US did, sending its armed forces in numbers to aid the North. Basically having them switch roles during the war. Would this possible and if so, could the war have ended differently or would the result be pretty much the same?
 
In the OTL Vietnam War, it was the US that sent forces and equipment in large numbers to help the South fight the North. Is it possible for the USSR to do what the US did, sending its armed forces in numbers to aid the North. Basically having them switch roles during the war. Would this possible and if so, could the war have ended differently or would the result be pretty much the same?

You forget one important detail who may screw one side or other.

The PRC.

They may have been both communists, the two regimes had been of two different 'sects', and there was complex games in southeast, southern asia between USSR and PRC, vying for hearts, souls and controls of the local commies groups.

The Khmer Rouges by example leaned to the PRC and Maoism, and not long after the Viets invaded and kicked their asses... As vietnam was USSR leaning (old gruge toward the chineses..), the PRC attacked Vietnam, as a sort of vengeance for screwing the Khmers rouges...


(Another side was the freedom war of what is now Bangladesh - USSR and PRC pushed opposed sides, which made one side with USA..)
 
By the late 60s it was clear the PRC was slowly aligning itself with the west against the Soviet Bloc. Mao was also increasingly fearful of the Soviets after the 1968 Prague Spring.

Meanwhile North Vietnam was receiving aid from both rival Communist powers. It was officially friendly with both, but increasingly leaned to the Soviets when the PRC shifted to the west. The Khmer branch of the Indochinese Communist Party (which was dominated by the Vietnamese) then split and formed the Khmer Rouge with Chinese backing. The rest is history.

Henry Kissinger revealed in his latest book that in 1979, China invaded Vietnam without any intention to overthrow the Vietnamese government, but hoped to embarrass the Soviets into failing to back its ally and to further strengthen the relations with the west. Deng in fact had visited several Burma, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Japan, and the US to gain support for his adventure. Kissinger even hints that Brezhnev's failure to support the Vietnamese made him turn his sights on Afghanistan to compensate the Chinese insult to Soviet power.

Kissinger wrote that Deng told him that Vietnam was planning to go Pac-Man on all of Southeast Asia, and that China was its only impediment. That sounds plausible but a bit hard to believe.
 
EternalCynic;6974129 Kissinger wrote that Deng told him that Vietnam was planning to go Pac-Man on all of Southeast Asia said:
Yeah, quite hard. Cambodge, yeah, they had a moment. Laos maybe, but Thailand had USA soldiers around for all Vietnam war, and could be easily backed up. At best, they would have stopped there.

Unless maybe surprise surprise, Burma, but WHY and HOW...


Methink Kissinger was still in his 'red scare' mentality there. Sounds typical 'dominos theory'.
 
Henry Kissinger revealed in his latest book that in 1979, China invaded Vietnam without any intention to overthrow the Vietnamese government, but hoped to embarrass the Soviets into failing to back its ally and to further strengthen the relations with the west. Deng in fact had visited several Burma, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Japan, and the US to gain support for his adventure. Kissinger even hints that Brezhnev's failure to support the Vietnamese made him turn his sights on Afghanistan to compensate the Chinese insult to Soviet power.
So would it be at all possible for LB to support Vietnam more than in OTL? Maybe having him want to be more proactive in spreading and supporting communism or have a different premier in power. I just thought that it would be interesting to see Soviet T-64s fighting ARVN M-47s and Tu-16s with Tu-95s overhead B-52 style.
 
Yeah, quite hard. Cambodge, yeah, they had a moment. Laos maybe, but Thailand had USA soldiers around for all Vietnam war, and could be easily backed up. At best, they would have stopped there.

Unless maybe surprise surprise, Burma, but WHY and HOW...


Methink Kissinger was still in his 'red scare' mentality there. Sounds typical 'dominos theory'.
Following the Vietnam War the Viet Cong did force a "Friendship Treaty" on the Pathet Lao, turning Laos into its puppet. The Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia was seen as the next step in Vietnam's ambitions, which led to US/Chinese support of the Khmer Rouge.

The Khmer Rouge were officially "Democratic Kampuchea", while the Vietnamese puppet government was the "People's Republic of Kampuchea" and consisted mainly of former Khmer Rouge defectors. To put a gloss on this situation, the CIA formed a "Coalition Government of Democratic Kampuchea" and encouraged the Khmer Rouge to espouse democratic socialism. In practice the coalition was entirely dominated by the old Khmer Rouge. It's remarkable how realpolitik leads Reagan and Thatcher to support the most brutal dictatorship in human history merely because it opposes other communists.
 
Avoiding the Six Day, War of Attrition and Yom Kippur Wars could help or have those conflicts happen with the Arab states not having Soviet support.
The Soviets would still want a place to test out their equipment in combat conditions so you could see many more Soviet pilots and ground personal serving in Vietnam rather than in Egypt or Syria.
 
Avoiding the Six Day, War of Attrition and Yom Kippur Wars could help or have those conflicts happen with the Arab states not having Soviet support.
The Soviets would still want a place to test out their equipment in combat conditions so you could see many more Soviet pilots and ground personal serving in Vietnam rather than in Egypt or Syria.

That would help but I wanted US level involvement with the North by the USSR while the US does what the USSR did in OTL, send equipment and advisors to the South but not getting militarily involved.
 
You forget one important detail who may screw one side or other.

The PRC.

They may have been both communists, the two regimes had been of two different 'sects', and there was complex games in southeast, southern asia between USSR and PRC, vying for hearts, souls and controls of the local commies groups.
This brings up an interesting topic. There were Soviet-American proxy wars, but what of Snio-Soviet ones?
 
This brings up an interesting topic. There were Soviet-American proxy wars, but what of Snio-Soviet ones?

The Chinese just didn't really have the projection beyond their immediate neighbors. Maybe if the PRC supported a side in Afghanistan against the Soviets? Or a secession crisis in North Korea and they support different sides...
 
The Chinese just didn't really have the projection beyond their immediate neighbors. Maybe if the PRC supported a side in Afghanistan against the Soviets? Or a secession crisis in North Korea and they support different sides...

The PRC did openly support the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan and actually set up training camps where the PLA shared its knowledge of fighting guerrilla wars. But Afghanistan was an all-against-Soviets proxy war anyways.
 
This brings up an interesting topic. There were Soviet-American proxy wars, but what of Snio-Soviet ones?

Maybe Burma with a POD far enough, the brutal army regime is kinda pro PRC since a good time. Have complex power fights around and the soviet helping Thailand maybe weirdly... OR a more pro Soviet India...
 
The PRC did openly support the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan and actually set up training camps where the PLA shared its knowledge of fighting guerrilla wars. But Afghanistan was an all-against-Soviets proxy war anyways.

Truth, I meant actively attempted to get thier own 'side' in power, a Khmer Rouge analogy, if you will, but hopefully without the genocide.
 
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