Rump Czechlosovakia as a German Puppet

Somua2

After Munich the Czechs were said to be resigned to dealing with Germany as the big power that must be accommodated. Not invading in March 39 would result in lost gold reserves and military equipment as well as direct control of the Skoda works.

But might indirect rule have been worth it in the long run? The Germans might have managed a limited war with just Poland under these circumstances. Maybe the czechs would have agreed to contribute tanks etc. as tribute?
 

Kongzilla

Banned
I think MSZ Kalter Krieg timeline involved something like this with Czechoslovakia becoming a puppet state in the Fascist Bloc
 

The Ubbergeek

That beg a question; what was the political climate of Czechoslovakia before WWII, specially for a scenario like the poster above spoke of.
 

Somua2

On Borrowed Time

The Ubbergeek said:
That beg a question; what was the political climate of Czechoslovakia before WWII, specially for a scenario like the poster above spoke of.
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IIRC, in Mosley's on Borrowed Time, the Czech political leadership was described as being deliberately subservient to Germany as a matter of survival. Without the mountain defenses, they were naked to attack and they had certainly learned not to place any faith in the West.
 
PoeFacedKilla

PoeFacedKilla

Banned
i think hitler thought of the czech lands as slavisized germans and german territory and probably planned to outright annex it post war.

On the other hand idk why hitler didn't do that?
maybe fracturing the enemy or something?
 

Kongzilla

Banned
It really depends how long is the long run, if you have a germany looking for war then Puppet state wouldn't have been quick enough but if you have a Germany trying to expand it's influence in a Nazi Dominated Europe plan Cold war style then a puppet state is the way to go.
 
PariahNihil

PariahNihil

What would be the point? Not appearing to be warmongerers or to make it easier when they are invading the rest of their neighbors barely a year later?
 

pompejus

PariahNihil said:
What would be the point? Not appearing to be warmongerers or to make it easier when they are invading the rest of their neighbors barely a year later?
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I could see that. Maybe Germany decides to focus on German minorities in other countries first, like Danzig or Eupen-Malmedy, before they focus on non-German speaking parts they claim, like Czechia and the Polish corridor to gain as much as possible before the war happens.
 
PariahNihil

PariahNihil

pompejus said:
I could see that. Maybe Germany decides to focus on German minorities in other countries first, like Danzig or Eupen-Malmedy, before they focus on non-German speaking parts they claim, like Czechia and the Polish corridor to gain as much as possible before the war happens.
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If anything, you would have slightly less troops stationed to keep the Czechs down, but said troops freed up pobably won't make a significant difference on any other front.
 

aktarian

No British guarantee to Poland. What difference that makes in the long run I can't say since if Germany invades Poland OTLish UK is unlikely to just stand by.
 

The Ubbergeek

PariahNihil said:
What would be the point? Not appearing to be warmongerers or to make it easier when they are invading the rest of their neighbors barely a year later?
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In history and strategy, it is often actually more profitable and usefull to even have a 'finlandised subject' than any outright invasion of 'thugging'. Like Swisterland - the nazis prefered and gained more of a neutral in theory but one who deal discretely without fuss with them than an invaded Swisterland.
 

Kevin C. Smith

aktarian said:
No British guarantee to Poland. What difference that makes in the long run I can't say since if Germany invades Poland OTLish UK is unlikely to just stand by.
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I have always wondered about that. If, for some reason, Hitler decided to reverse the order of the Polish campaign and finishing off the remaining Czech territories, would the British have made any European guarantees beyond France? With Poland out of the picture, Whitehall has to decide who would be next...Russia? The M-R pact would seem to have taken that off the table (and no one was going to be quite ready to accept the USSR as a British ally at this time, I'd think). France? They're already allies so that's nothing new. It would almost have to be somewhere in the Balkans? Perhaps with Poland a done deal, there might not be any British guarantee to anybody, except the exisitng arangements with France. If so, what would Britian's casus bellum be? The German attack on/through the Low Countries? How (if at all) would that affect deployment of the BEF and the subsequent battle for France?

And my favorite POD for speculation, if Hitler takes Poland before finishing off the Czechs, whether or not this reults in a British "line in the sand" and then dies unexpectedly (freak accident, successful assassination, illness, etc.), will the Riech under Goering move to the next step of attacking France/UK? Or could they just finagle some recognition of the status quo, with a reunified German people?

Assuming that the economy goes to pieces again, what do we have to deal with? A Red Germany (and how will this play with the now-bordering USSR)? A republic (I can't imagine anything but a weak one)? Some garden variety European strongman rule (ala Mussolini or the Balkans)? A restoration of some form of parliamentary monarchy (but with who as the sovereign-I doubt Europe would let Willy back on the throne)?

Maybe a wild chance that Greater (not Nazi, and certainly not monomaniacally genocidal Nazi) Germany survives?
 

Snaut

Somua2 said:
The Germans might have managed a limited war with just Poland under these circumstances.
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I'm not sure where this idea comes from. If Britain were to tolerate any farther German expansionism after the Sudetenland, it probably wouldn't have reacted to the destruction of rump Czechoslovakia the way it did. Danzig and Memel may be exceptions, but their geopolitical significance was incomparably less then that of central Czechia or the Corridor. There's also the fact that Hitler was willing to renounce the corridor, at least temporarily. If he asks for Danzig only under the circumstances the OP posits, he would likely get it. Germany has not yet proven itself to be completely untrustworthy, Poland was prepared to let it return to Germany, and the British guarantee is not in place. Of course, this need not apply to situations in which Hitler is replaced by someone else.
 

pompejus

Zaius said:
I'm not sure where this idea comes from. If Britain were to tolerate any farther German expansionism after the Sudetenland, it probably wouldn't have reacted to the destruction of rump Czechoslovakia the way it did. Danzig and Memel may be exceptions, but their geopolitical significance was incomparably less then that of central Czechia or the Corridor.
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The only way I see a limited war against only Poland, is if Germany only demands Danzig and the people of Danzig make clear they want to join Germany, but Poland still dislikes it so much they attack Germany in reponse and even then I think France and Britain might still declare war on Germany unless Poland has pissed them off too much.
 

Somua2

A More Subtle Approach

pompejus said:
The only way I see a limited war against only Poland, is if Germany only demands Danzig and the people of Danzig make clear they want to join Germany, but Poland still dislikes it so much they attack Germany in reponse and even then I think France and Britain might still declare war on Germany unless Poland has pissed them off too much.
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I think that's the scenario they should be shooting for. A good chance to get Danzig without war and probably a very controversial one in the West if it comes to war. Best approach at that point might be a longer phoney war followed by negotiations.
 
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