Valkyrie is put into complete operation despite Hitler surviving

[Alternate History Geek]

What if Operation Valkyrie had been carried out to its fullest extent? IOTL they nearly did so despite Hitler surviving. What if they actually had carried it out?

[basileus]

Originally Posted by Alternate History Geek

What if Operation Valkyrie had been carried out to its fullest extent? IOTL they nearly did so despite Hitler surviving. What if they actually had carried it out?

Impossibile. The operation assumed the emergency and chaos subsequent to Der Fuehrer's death.

[M. Adolphe Thiers]

Originally Posted by Alternate History Geek

What if Operation Valkyrie had been carried out to its fullest extent? IOTL they nearly did so despite Hitler surviving. What if they actually had carried it out?

At best, civil war amongst the German military. Since they didn't manage to kill Hitler, I think a lot more people are going to stay supporting the government than back the coup if he was killed.

[Cook]

Originally Posted by Alternate History Geek

What if Operation Valkyrie had been carried out to its fullest extent? IOTL they nearly did so despite Hitler surviving. What if they actually had carried it out?

As soon Hitler is found to be alive the coup collapses regardless of whether the conspirator’s had secured Berlin or not, simply because the conspirator’s weren’t securing the city, they were using troops loyal to Hitler and acting on instructions issued ‘in the event of the Fuhrer’s death’ to secure the city.

[RousseauX]

Originally Posted by Alternate History Geek

What if Operation Valkyrie had been carried out to its fullest extent? IOTL they nearly did so despite Hitler surviving. What if they actually had carried it out?

Nobody would obey them because they had no authority over the troops they were ordering around if Hitler was alive. They troops they were hoping to take power with would probably be the same ones who would take them out and shoot them.

[TheTimeRanger]

Impossibru.The Success of Valkyrie Requires Adolf Hitler's demise.

[Strategos' Risk]

What if Hitler is incapacitated?

[Cook]

Originally Posted by Strategos' Risk

What if Hitler is incapacitated?

Then it would function as if he were dead; there wouldn’t be anyone to countermand the orders.

The problems would begin for them with Goering; despite having been discredited by the failures of the Luftwaffe, Goering was still Hitler’s official successor, the web would start to unravel when they attempted to arrest him or tried to ignore his orders. Then the cat’s out of the bag and events depend on just how much of the Party and enormous internal security apparatus the conspirators have managed to arrest and who is still free.

[RandomChance]

My immediate thought was 'if not dead, arrested and hidden, claim he's dead/incapacitated'.
The flaw however is that if its discovered he's alive, it's game over, so they wouldn't take the risk. Arrest or kidnapping is unlikely, it's kill or be killed.

[Strategos' Risk]

Have a madcap scheme involving having a body double claim he's the real Hitler.

[deathscompanion1]

The panzer cadets at Potsdam under Guderian or SS units launch a counter coup and kill the conspiritors.

Nazi Germany implodes allies win earlier.

[Alternate History Geek]

What if in the chaos they manage to finish the job and kill Hitler for real?

Or at least cut off his communications with the outside world?

[Cook]

Originally Posted by Alternate History Geek

What if in the chaos they manage to finish the job and kill Hitler for real?

There was no follow-up plan, they’d counted on the bomb killing Hitler and everyone else at the conference; which it would have done if it had taken place where it was expected to, in the concrete reinforced headquarters building rather than the small wooden building it was switched to. And as soon as the bomb went off the entire area was swarming with Hitler’s security forces.

Originally Posted by Alternate History Geek

Or at least cut off his communications with the outside world?

That is something they did manage to do for a while. The problem remains the same though; Hitler will move to where he can get to a working phone line and the house of cards collapses.

Support for the conspiracy was simply too small for it to work if Hitler survived; the conspirators relied on people obeying orders issued by Hitler prior to his death. They were using the remaining personal loyalty to Hitler against the Nazi Regime.

[Grimm Reaper]

Didn't Goebbels put the commander of a key military unit in Berlin on the phone with Hitler and Hitler's voice sufficed to convince this officer that the plot had failed?

[Cook]

Originally Posted by Grimm Reaper

Didn't Goebbels put the commander of a key military unit in Berlin on the phone with Hitler and Hitler's voice sufficed to convince this officer that the plot had failed?

Yes, Major Otto Remer.

[BlairWitch749]

Originally Posted by deathscompanion1

The panzer cadets at Potsdam under Guderian or SS units launch a counter coup and kill the conspiritors.

Nazi Germany implodes allies win earlier.

this is the answer to this question and all variations of it

guderian kills the plotters, the end

[LeoXiao]

Do we get another stab-in-the-back-legend from this? Stuff like "we lost because our Fuehrer wasn't there to guide us anymore!"

[Cook]

Originally Posted by LeoXiao

Do we get another stab-in-the-back-legend from this? Stuff like "we lost because our Fuehrer wasn't there to guide us anymore!"

Undoubtedly. 'The Third Reich had fought the Allies and Communists to a standstill and was poised to unleash new wonder weapons that would have turned the tide when the conspiritors betrayed Germany.'

[MalcontentRex]

My hunch is that it would be much like the civil war between Fatah and Hamas that we saw going on within the Palestinian Authority IOTL five or so years ago--a vicious, gory thing based on a petty power struggle between two ferociously anti-Semitic, warmongering sides that didn't have a whole lot of real differences. Expect to see a lot of atrocities, even on civilians/women/children suspected of supporting the wrong faction of the NSDAP.

It probably would have shortened the war some as the Nazis would be fighting each other instead of fighting the Allies and Soviets, but a lot would depend on how much the Allies learn and how quickly. OTOH, if the Valkyrie faction wins quickly and decisively, we might see something like an unconditional immediate surrender to the Allies (at least the Western ones) followed by a sneaky strike or uprising at some later point when they are least suspecting it.