Different Christian Biblical Canons

This is going in the pre-1900 section, although some parts of it could apply to post-1900 as well...

What if there were significantly different Biblical canons?

The Catholic Bibles contain the Apocrypha, while the Ethiopian church has something called The Book of Jubilees and the Mormon Bibles have the Book of Mormon and some other writings as well. However, all the Bibles used by all the major Christian denominations have essentially the same 66 books in them.

I'm thinking of something more radical. Here are some ideas:

1. Paul's epistles not included. He was not one of the Twelve and some claim contradictions between his teachings and those of Christ or His other followers. 2 Peter, which refers to "our dear brother Paul" and implies that his writings are Scripture, might need to be removed as well.

This need not be an ancient POD. A relatively-new group that calls itself "Liberals Like Christ" believes that Paul was a false prophet. See http://www.liberalslikechrist.org/index.htm Some modern scholars believe 2 Peter was not actually written by Peter the Apostle, so perhaps a modern church might try to "prune" the canon.

Paul need not be considered an evil fraud though--he could simply be an earlier Ante-Nicene Father (writings are wise, but not on the same level as Scripture).

2. Different Gospel Narratives. Other stories of Christ's life in addition to or replacing the Four Canonical Gospels. Here I don't know so much, other than there is a "Gospel of Mary Magdalene" from the 2nd-3rd Century which is rather Gnostic, plus the "Gospel of Thomas" and the "Infancy of Gospel of Thomas" (which includes charming stories such as the child Jesus pushing a bully off the roof and then raising him from the dead).

3. Modern Add-Ons.-What if the writings of a more modern (ie non-First Century) leader were considered canonical?

I had the odd notion of a group believing CS Lewis to be a prophet raised up by God to defend Christian doctrines against Nazism, Communism, scientific naturalism (I'm thinking Dawkins-esque extremism here; I'm not being anti-science), and other sorts of ideologies/philosophies of the 20th Century that tend to undermine Christianity, but someone earlier would have a greater chance.

A somewhat-close OTL example is the Seventh-Day Adventists, who believe Ellen White to have been a prophet, but I think they rank her writings below the 66 canonical books--her stuff is accepted only if it doesn't contradict, as opposed to including it as canon and trying to figure out how to harmonize it with the others. The Mormons likewise, although they claim the BoM itself is very old (the golden tablets)--I think the "Doctrines and Covenants" and "Pearl of Great Price" are by Smith or Young themselves, although I do not know for sure.

4. Surviving Gnostics-IIRC the more Christian of the Gnostics used the canon of Marcion, which included Luke and Paul's letters, but not the OT and some other NT books. If Gnosticism survived longer and in a more organized form, this might work.

Bonus points if multiple canons circulate simultaneously from as early a point as possible. Some churches might deny Paul and base their teachings on the Gospels, James, and Acts (the Liberal Like Christ group), while others might draw from the Gospel of Thomas in addition to The Big Four.

I'm sure this would make theological debate more interesting, and considering how church and state often get intertwined, it might affect more than just academic affairs.
 
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KJM said:
What if Genesis had been excluded?

I don't think you could exclude Genesis and keep Exodus, and without Exodus, none of the others male sense. So basically, that's excluding the Pentateuch. Been done - some churches said it belonged to the Jews, not the Christians.

Generally, this is going to be an interesting thing, but it would require some major shift oin how Christianity develops into the established religion of the Empire. The 'orthodoxy' bug was already well established by Constantine's time.

What might just be conceigvbable is for the imperial church to allow for wider latitude - something like an outer and inner canon being established. All churches accept the synoptic gospels, but whatever else is or is not regarded as Scripture is up to the going interpretation.

It would go against the grain of the developing concept of scriptural religion, though. I don'z see how it can be done easily.
 
carlton_bach said:
It would go against the grain of the developing concept of scriptural religion, though. I don'z see how it can be done easily.

There might be room for this during the Christological controvseries.

The Arians, Monophysites, Nestorians, etc. might come up with some non-66 books that aid/abet their positions, or remove those that undermine their position (the Arians might exclude the Gospel of John, which explicitly says that Jesus was God).

Since Arianism and Nestorianism were strongest outside of the Empire, and the Monophysite territories were soon taken by Islam, these groups would have a greater chance at getting away with it than those under Imperial authority.

However, this leaves them open to charges of "picking and choosing." They'd probably need better reason than "it disagrees with my belief" to justify adding/subtracting from the canon.
 
Max Sinister said:
And why is Dawkins extremist?

Dawkins represents the pro-science equivalent of the young-earth creationists (the ones who think the Earth is only 6000 years old and insist that evolutionary theory is the product of "unsaved scientists" who cannot be trusted).

He insists that the evolution disproves any sort of God and explains all human actions and morality. Rather than erring by viewing evolutionary theory as EEVIL, he errs by acting as though it is the be-all end-all for human behavior. A young-earther named Mohlers (whose web-site escapes me at the moment--I think it's BaptistBlog or something) cites Dawkins in his claim that evolutionary theory is a worldview antagonistic to Christianity. I think Dawkins is being used as a straw man to smear all who believe the Earth is 4.5 billion years old and that life evolved, but Dawkins definitely does have opinions.

This article here describes what I called "scientific naturalism" as "neo-Darwinism" and described it as a metaphysical world-view:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/callahan/callahan151.html

I personally am a Christian who believes the Earth is 4.5 billion years old and I believe in evolution. I really don't see a problem with that (the Hebrew word for "day" is used to describe "the day of King David," so the Days of Genesis might not be literal and Adam/Eve could have been the first truly sentient humans, as opposed to the austropicathenes or whatever).
 
MerryPrankster said:
Dawkins represents the pro-science equivalent of the young-earth creationists (the ones who think the Earth is only 6000 years old and insist that evolutionary theory is the product of "unsaved scientists" who cannot be trusted).

He insists that the evolution disproves any sort of God and explains all human actions and morality. Rather than erring by viewing evolutionary theory as EEVIL, he errs by acting as though it is the be-all end-all for human behavior. A young-earther named Mohlers (whose web-site escapes me at the moment--I think it's BaptistBlog or something) cites Dawkins in his claim that evolutionary theory is a worldview antagonistic to Christianity. I think Dawkins is being used as a straw man to smear all who believe the Earth is 4.5 billion years old and that life evolved, but Dawkins definitely does have opinions.

This article here describes what I called "scientific naturalism" as "neo-Darwinism" and described it as a metaphysical world-view:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/callahan/callahan151.html

I personally am a Christian who believes the Earth is 4.5 billion years old and I believe in evolution. I really don't see a problem with that (the Hebrew word for "day" is used to describe "the day of King David," so the Days of Genesis might not be literal and Adam/Eve could have been the first truly sentient humans, as opposed to the austropicathenes or whatever).
the entire book is nothing but one metaphor stacked ontop of the other's.
 
carlton_bach said:
What might just be conceigvbable is for the imperial church to allow for wider latitude - something like an outer and inner canon being established. All churches accept the synoptic gospels, but whatever else is or is not regarded as Scripture is up to the going interpretation.

An "inner" and "outer" canon? That's clever, and it sounds workable.
 
You might see one of the more fixted dispensationalists treating Schofield's commentary in the Schofield Bible as canonical. Sort of an official Protestant Midrash.

Tom
 
I lust for a treasure trove of ancient gospels. Twelve apostles and only Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John wrote one?
 
wkwillis said:
I lust for a treasure trove of ancient gospels. Twelve apostles and only Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John wrote one?

Well, James and Jude wrote epistles.

There are gospels supposedly written by others such as Nicodemus, Mary Magdalene, Bartholomew, etc. Thing is, they're from the 2nd-3rd Centuries (at least MM is), which is far too late for the purported writers to be alive.

Leo said that Thomas is from the right time period (40-50 AD), so there's a chance that might have been written by one of the Twelve.
 

Leo Caesius

Banned
The main hypothesis among proponents of source criticism right now is the "Two Source hypothesis" or some variation on it: the earliest gospel is probably Mark (or a proto-version of "our" Mark) which, along with a "sayings gospel" (known to text critics as Q) formed the basis for Luke and Matthew, which came slightly later, and incorporate material from the two of them. Nobody's sure exactly where John came from; it may represent a parallel tradition, or it may have derived from the other four. Most scholars agree that John is the latest canonical gospel, and that Luke and Matthew are derivative rather than original sources.

Thomas independently contains much of the material found in Matthew, Mark, and Luke which has been attributed to Q. Therefore, some text critics claim that Thomas represents an early (and independent) development of Q, just as Matthew and Luke are developments of Q and Mark. The fact that most of the material in Thomas is corroborated by the other three gospels, and that the manuscripts of Thomas are earlier than the manuscripts of the other gospels (with the exception of a few fragments here and there), lends weight to its authenticity.
 

Faeelin

Banned
Leo Caesius said:
Thomas independently contains much of the material found in Matthew, Mark, and Luke which has been attributed to Q. Therefore, some text critics claim that Thomas represents an early (and independent) development of Q, just as Matthew and Luke are developments of Q and Mark. The fact that most of the material in Thomas is corroborated by the other three gospels, and that the manuscripts of Thomas are earlier than the manuscripts of the other gospels (with the exception of a few fragments here and there), lends weight to its authenticity.

Hmm. Do you know of a good book discussing this?
 
wkwillis said:
I lust for a treasure trove of ancient gospels.

These sites might be helpful:

Early Christian Writings: New Testament, Apocrypha, Gnostics, and Fathers

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/

Gnostic texts:

http://www.gnosis.org

The Development of the Canon of the New Testament:

http://www.ntcanon.org/

The New Testament Gateway:

http://ntgateway.com/

"Noncanonical Literature
Documents to Aid Students and Scholars in Biblical Interpretation including Introductions and Summaries of Many Noncanonical Works"

http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studies/noncanon/
 
"The Gnostic Gospels" is a good book as well.

Regarding the historical question, I believe the survival of such alternate canons - together with the orthodox views - would have resulted in the rise of distinct monotheistic religions based on the Christ event, perhaps as distinct from each other as Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are from each other - certainly far more distinct than modern Catholicism and Protestantism. Maybe more like how the LDS Church is percieved by most orthodox Christians, which is to say as not Christian at all.

Otherwise, I do find Carlton's "outer" and "inner" canons a useful tool to create a bigger "Big Tent" Christianity to serve as the State religion of the Empire. However, to the extent basic Chrsitological scriptures differ among the sects, it would continue to cause problems in maintaining unity, unless the faith morphed more completely into to the new civic religion of the Roman Empire instead of "The One True Way" to salvation.
 
zoomar said:
Otherwise, I do find Carlton's "outer" and "inner" canons a useful tool to create a bigger "Big Tent" Christianity to serve as the State religion of the Empire. However, to the extent basic Chrsitological scriptures differ among the sects, it would continue to cause problems in maintaining unity, unless the faith morphed more completely into to the new civic religion of the Roman Empire instead of "The One True Way" to salvation.

It is true that the Christological issues would continue to cause division. That's why I said a good chance for multiple canons to survive would be if the "different canons" are adopted by sects outside of Roman control (Arians in the Germanic states, Nestorians in Persia, Monophysites in the Islamic zones, etc).

Even non-Christological differences could be tricky. The Liberals Like Christ group, which rejects Paul's writings, is far less likely to get sidetracked on issues pertaining to sex than say, the Southern Baptists. Something tells me the LLCs cause and/or get into a major problems if they were transplanted to late Roman/early Byzantine times.
 
I thought Moton Smith's discovery of the Secret Gospel of Mark confirmed the existence of an inner and outer canon from the very beginning of christianity? Maybe it still exists? After all, the 'revelations' of the visions the church claims were of Mary in the twentieth century were kept secret and revealed only to the pope and a select group of churchmen.

So the assumption is that the senior church leadership had access to whole volumes of writings that were kept away from the laity and other priests. As one pope said, 'This Jesus myth has served us well.'
 
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