AHC: Christian Objectivist Movement

Although many on the religious right and libertarian end of the spectrum identify with objectivist thought, many will avoid calling themselves objectivists because it is a secular, explicitly atheistic, philosophy. Paul Ryan is an example, when his objectivist views came under the spot light he basically disowned Ayn Rand for being an atheist.
Change this so that Objectivism leaves its atheism behind or becomes a christian movement.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
That's OTL. That is more or less the foundation of the current Republican consensus thanks to Mr. Greenspan and Leo Strauss.
 
Christianity is much to compassionate to the poor to be associated with Objectivism.
The Republican VP candidate supports the economic values associated with objectivism, and he is christian. The religious right is very similar to the objectivist movement without being explicitly objectivist.
 
The Republican VP candidate supports the economic values associated with objectivism, and he is christian. The religious right is very similar to the objectivist movement without being explicitly objectivist.

well you could argue that that's not true christianity, but I'm not getting into that...;)
 
The Republican VP candidate supports the economic values associated with objectivism, and he is christian. The religious right is very similar to the objectivist movement without being explicitly objectivist.

So, that would make Ryan and the Religious Right CHINOS (Christians In Name Only)? :p
 
And the OP's "Christian Objectivist Movement" might be called COMmunists! :eek:

I don't think they would be, at least if communism is the same as OTL. Objectivists are big fans of the free market.

Being a strict objectivist and being a Christian is pretty much impossible, because of Objectivism's whole deal about being selfish and not helping anyone but yourself.
 
For an Objectivist movement to follow hardline Christianity or vice versa? It should be ideologically incompatible. However, I must note that many in the Libertarian/Republican movement will use Objectivist tennants (picked according to how much they like them, while conveniently ignoring the underlying philosophy of Objectivism) to suppliment their ideology and to help reinforce their ideals.

I'd argue that much of their core belief system flies in the face of what they supposedely believe spiritually, but that's what happens when one foolishly mixes religion and politics. People will twist their religious views to justify their political ones, rarely the other way around.
 
I don't see any similarity between the Christian religious right and Libertarian objectivism (Randism). The latter has no place for social conservatism whatsoever, just for starters.
 
To the naysayers claiming they're incompatible: It depends on the interpretation of Christianity. Christians (who can be defined, in strict terms, as "people who believe the Jesus of Nazareth was the son of the Abrahamic deity, and that he died as atonement for the collective perceived sins of humankind") are no more or less capable than anyone else of being as selfish as Objectivism requires.
 
To the naysayers claiming they're incompatible: It depends on the interpretation of Christianity. Christians (who can be defined, in strict terms, as "people who believe the Jesus of Nazareth was the son of the Abrahamic deity, and that he died as atonement for the collective perceived sins of humankind") are no more or less capable than anyone else of being as selfish as objectivism requires.

Not denying that, but Ayn Rand's Objectivism is an explicitly atheist ideology almost as much as Leninist Communism is.
 
Not denying that, but Ayn Rand's Objectivism is an explicitly atheist ideology almost as much as Leninist Communism is.

The notion of an "atheist ideology" is somewhat flawed. Atheism is a single position taken is response to a single claim. It can be a part of any ideology, but it's not difficult to swap it out with some other religious stance and have the ideology remain basically the same. Ayn Rand may not have cared to do so, but then she was probably the only one to adhere fully to "Ayn Rand's Objectivism". Anyone else may adhere to large swathes of the ideology, but they will always change some things to make it their own. Very few ideologies are truly monolithic.
 
The notion of an "atheist ideology" is somewhat flawed. Atheism is a single position taken is response to a single claim. It can be a part of any ideology, but it's not difficult to swap it out with some other religious stance and have the ideology remain basically the same. Ayn Rand may not have cared to do so, but then she was probably the only one to adhere fully to "Ayn Rand's Objectivism". Anyone else may adhere to large swathes of the ideology, but they will always change some things to make it their own. Very few ideologies are truly monolithic.

I wouldn't say so. Each of the mentioned ideologies is explicitly anti-religious in their dogma. And morally if one is a practicing Christian they're going to have a really damn hard time justifying it to many people that their Objectivists, similarily to an Objectivist justifying his religious beliefs.

Ayn Rand's ideology held so many explicitly anti-Christian virtues that unless one is only using its economic views (like most of them do) that the two are incredibly incompatible on the philisophical level to being mutually exclusive.

Rand's ethic of selfishness as the extreme virture just doesn't jive with the Christian ethic or humbleness and modesty.
 
I wouldn't say so. Each of the mentioned ideologies is explicitly anti-religious in their dogma. And morally if one is a practicing Christian they're going to have a really damn hard time justifying it to many people that their Objectivists, similarily to an Objectivist justifying his religious beliefs.

Ayn Rand's ideology held so many explicitly anti-Christian virtues that unless one is only using its economic views (like most of them do) that the two are incredibly incompatible on the philisophical level to being mutually exclusive.

Rand's ethic of selfishness as the extreme virture just doesn't jive with the Christian ethic or humbleness and modesty.

I think you missed my point... I'm defining "Christians" based on a specific belief:

..."people who believe the Jesus of Nazareth was the son of the Abrahamic deity, and that he died as atonement for the collective perceived sins of humankind"...

I am NOT defining them according to moral stances or to their behaviours - to define any religious group on such things is to start tumbling down a slippery slope to "No True Scotsman" territory... It's perfectly possible for someone to hold the above belief and to bin the rest of the details in order to replace them with another ideology.

Secondly, the challenge is to create "Christian Objectivism" - not "Christians Adopt Ayn Rand's Objectivism". I agree that Christians would want to jettison the atheism, but I'm also saying that religions are pretty damn malleable, and any Christians with inclinations to many Objectivist ideas (except the atheist stances, of course) would be able to twist the religion to justify them, thusly creating a "Christian Objectivist Movement".
 
I think you missed my point... I'm defining "Christians" based on a specific belief:

I am NOT defining them according to moral stances or to their behaviours - to define any religious group on such things is to start tumbling down a slippery slope to "No True Scotsman" territory... It's perfectly possible for someone to hold the above belief and to bin the rest of the details in order to replace them with another ideology.

I'd argue that someone who holds that belief but not the tennants is really just putting themselves under a banner and being both philisophically and ideologically lazy. It's a broad category for things to fall under but you could technically have them adopt a very skethcy version of each ideology yes.

It still strikes me as intellectually dishonest to the point of self-parody.

Secondly, the challenge is to create "Christian Objectivism" - not "Christians Adopt Ayn Rand's Objectivism". I agree that Christians would want to jettison the atheism, but I'm also saying that religions are pretty damn malleable, and any Christians with inclinations to many Objectivist ideas (except the atheist stances, of course) would be able to twist the religion to justify them, thusly creating a "Christian Objectivist Movement".

Again it involves so much ideological twisting to make the resulting ideologies unidentifiable to their parent products so this is an 'In Name Only' case I would argue.

EDIT: Also just to be clear, I'm so against the idea because in order for such a hypothetical group to wear the lable Christian by any broad sense they MUST have a theological backing to even make the idea presentable to a mainstream audience without being a self-parody. Since I can't think of a plausible way to combine the two this is were my objections stem from. Even the Religious Right in the US claims to be campaigning under a banner of 'social morals' whereas I can't for the life of me find a common ground between these two ideologies.
 
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