AHC: Make each US state a separate country.

Armored Diplomacy

With a POD anytime between 1776 and 2012, make each US state an independent country. Each state must have its current name, size, and location, with a small exception for Maryland, which gets Washington, DC.

Bonus points for describing in detail as many of these countries as you can (IE economy, standard of living, military, politics).
 

Deleted member 40957

A Yellowstone Supervolcano eruption during the Great Depression is the only way I can think of doing this. Nuclear war would make some areas completely uninhabitable, while any earlier PoDs could butterfly away OTL's state borders and names. For example, Idaho's name is faux-Indian and was invented relatively late to encourage settlement there.
 

Daztur

serbrcq said:
A Yellowstone Supervolcano eruption during the Great Depression is the only way I can think of doing this. Nuclear war would make some areas completely uninhabitable, while any earlier PoDs could butterfly away OTL's state borders and names. For example, Idaho's name is faux-Indian and was invented relatively late to encourage settlement there.
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Oooh that's a good one. I can't top that.
 

Deleted member 40957

I guess if you ignore butterflies that affect state names and borders, you could start with a successful Confederate secession, which would set a precedent.

That Confederacy could fall apart later on, once states like Virginia move towards abolition and are opposed by diehard slave states like Mississippi and South Carolina. So there you go, twelve independent states (although I don't see why the Confederate Indian Territory would name itself Oklahoma...)

The South winning the war could cause the collapse of the Republicans in the remaining USA and the beginning of Northern Democratic domination - and given the corruption prevalent in that era's Democratic Party, this could easily degenerate into soft authoritarianism, paving the way for insurrection and the breakup of the remaining US states.
 
iori

iori

It's ASB essentially.

You can the U.S. to break-up early on nad have the state borders, but you have to remember that only 16 of the states existed before becoming part of the Union, the other 34 were created by the Federal government over half a century.

Of course to if the U.S. fell apart the states would'nt ALL go independent, some would join together, like the states of New England.
 

CharlesMartell

Vermont was a sovereign state for the first 14 years of it's existence.

Texas of course, was also an independent Republic for a while.

In the past I heard there has even been some talk of British Columbia, Alberta and the North West American States seceding to form a new State of "CASCADIA".

I think that mixing Canadians and Americans though, would be like trying to mix oil and water.
 
iori

iori

CharlesMartell said:
In the past I heard there has even been some talk of British Columbia, Alberta and the North West American States seceding to form a new State of "CASCADIA".
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Alberta is not now nor ever has been included in the concept of Cascadia.

At its core Cascadia is defined as British Columbia, Oregon and Washington (state), at the largest it's defined as those plus the watershed of the Columbia River System, which even then does not include any part of Alberta or any other part of Canada for that matter.
 

Lord Grattan

Iori said:
Alberta is not now nor ever has been included in the concept of Cascadia.

At its core Cascadia is defined as British Columbia, Oregon and Washington (state), at the largest it's defined as those plus the watershed of the Columbia River System, which even then does not include any part of Alberta or any other part of Canada for that matter.
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What about the central and lower Yukon River basin?

____________________

Back on topic:

Armored Diplomacy said:
With a POD anytime between 1776 and 2012, make each US state an independent country. Each state must have its current name, size, and location, with a small exception for Maryland, which gets Washington, DC.

Bonus points for describing in detail as many of these countries as you can (IE economy, standard of living, military, politics).
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This is impossible w/o the intervention of ASBs. I agree w/what Iori said up-thread.
 

Lord Grattan

Jane said:
Hawaii, was an independent kingdom ones.
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Yes, and Texas, California and Vermont were independent republics. Additionally, Alaska and Florida exist within their earlier colonial (Russian & Spanish/British respectively) borders.

How do these states plus the other 44 become independent & sovereign nations, each within its established state borders (and w/D.C. going to Maryland)?
 
iori

iori

Lord Grattan said:
What about the central and lower Yukon River basin?
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The only Watershed/basin used for definitions is the Columbia rivers.

The largest definition I've ever seen, which was more an alternative definition of the Pacific North West rather than Cascadia included a small part of South West Yukon Territory, but I'm pretty sure no one considers it part of Cascadia.
 

Malta

Lord Grattan said:
Yes, and Texas, California and Vermont were independent republics. Additionally, Alaska and Florida exist within their earlier colonial (Russian & Spanish/British respectively) borders.

How do these states plus the other 44 become independent & sovereign nations, each within its established state borders (and w/D.C. going to Maryland)?
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Vermont also sold buck loads of cattle to Britain during 1812 and several residents had rather grandiose plans to seperate from the Union if things went even more sour.
 

Dagon

Iori said:
The only Watershed/basin used for definitions is the Columbia rivers.

The largest definition I've ever seen, which was more an alternative definition of the Pacific North West rather than Cascadia included a small part of South West Yukon Territory, but I'm pretty sure no one considers it part of Cascadia.
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Theyre talking politically, not geographically. And I've seen Northern California thrown in too
 

GrandDukeOfEltham

Banned
The easiest way is causing rivalry between the 13 colonies so that they form individual states for example Benjamin Franklin decides that Pennsylvaniwould work better as governed with a Timocracy government (Rule by honor; a system of governance ruled by honorable citizens and property owners).
Washington makes Washington D.C. into a Stratocracy (Rule by military service; a system of governance composed of military government in which the state and the military are traditionally the same thing. Citizens with military service have the right to govern)
And so on .

The only problem is would this cause wars between state nations?
 

iddt3

Donor
GrandDukeOfEltham said:
The easiest way is causing rivalry between the 13 colonies so that they form individual states for example Benjamin Franklin decides that Pennsylvaniwould work better as governed with a Timocracy government (Rule by honor; a system of governance ruled by honorable citizens and property owners).
Washington makes Washington D.C. into a Stratocracy (Rule by military service; a system of governance composed of military government in which the state and the military are traditionally the same thing. Citizens with military service have the right to govern)
And so on .

The only problem is would this cause wars between state nations?
Click to expand...
Well that and it makes no sense. And you still don't get 50 independent nation states. If the early US fails you're almost certainly going to see more local unions, i.e. New England, the Midatlantic States, the South. some of the states are simply too small to exist on their own (Vermont, MD, Delaware are all good examples), others are so economically intertwined so as to make division unfeasible.
 

MN.Gruber06

My timeline "History of the North Star Republic" explores this idea. Although the state of Minnesota houses the original idea of independence and its "founding fathers", it eventually encompasses more than just Minnesota by the end of the timeline. Check it out if you have time.

Furthermore it is worth noting that the idea of each U.S. state becoming a "separate country" is one that was already in place prior to the eventual sweeping federalization that came following the American Civil War. The U.S. in itself was not viewed as an independent nation by average Americans until after the Civil War, and was instead viewed as a union of independent states. The federal government was viewed by most as a medium which allowed these states to voice their concerns with the overarching commitments inherent in joining this union. The popular argument for this point is that prior to the Civil War, writings concerning America were usually stated as "the United States are" rather than the "the United States is."
 
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