AHC: Serious Cascadian Independence Movement

  • Thread starter Deleted member 40957
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Deleted member 40957

\With as recent a PoD as possible, how could the idea of Cascadian secession evolve beyond a joking regional identifier and into a genuine movement with the same level of popular support and political power as, say, Scottish independence?

Presumably there would need to be something to create genuine antagonism between the region and the American and Canadian governments. How could this be accomplished? I've got a vague idea about Wayne Morse and Vietnam, but it would have to be a local issue rather than a national one.
 

libbrit

Banned
Well, one of the ideas behind Scottish nationalism is that Scotland invariably votes Labour but the UK doesn't always end up with a labour govt. Of course, in practical terms this disconnect has been made irrelevent with the creation of the Scottish parliament.

In a Cascadian equivalent, how about a third party takes advantage of certain economic/social changes in the area and becomes entrenched as the leading party at state/provincial levels, and starts winning the areas federal representation, but not to the degree that if affects national elections. The area can then justly claim not to be properly taken account of by national governments.
 

Deckhand

Not much of a regional identifier even. At least in BC. Every time i have seen it in print i wonder "how come they are lumping us in with that lot? "

Hard to see any way with a recent POD that causes BC to consider union with Americans as a palatable option. Our powers as a province within confederation are more than adequate to satisfy any issues that might come up with Ottawa. There have been separatist parties for years, and most of the 90's were spent electing the party not in power, and it didn't lead to anything.

I think you would have to go much further back. Possibly a codominion of the old Oregon territory leading to a separate state. I think there was a TL that followed that idea, somewhere about.

Possibly a nuclear war destroys the central governments?
 

Deleted member 40957

libbrit said:
Well, one of the ideas behind Scottish nationalism is that Scotland invariably votes Labour but the UK doesn't always end up with a labour govt. Of course, in practical terms this disconnect has been made irrelevent with the creation of the Scottish parliament.

In a Cascadian equivalent, how about a third party takes advantage of certain economic/social changes in the area and becomes entrenched as the leading party at state/provincial levels, and starts winning the areas federal representation, but not to the degree that if affects national elections. The area can then justly claim not to be properly taken account of by national governments.
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That makes a lot of sense. I'm kind of getting an outline here, actually. Maybe getting rid of Nixon could lead to the Southern Strategy being butterflied away or delayed, meaning the American Independents stay on as a viable alternative and become a Southern regionalist party. This turns out to be an effective way for them to stymie federal "interference with the Southern way of life". It sets a precedent, and when some independent-minded politician from Oregon or Washington starts butting heads with the government (maybe over an environmental deal - toxic waste storage or something), they've already got a positive example to follow.
 

Deleted member 40957

Deckhand said:
Not much of a regional identifier even. At least in BC. Every time i have seen it in print i wonder "how come they are lumping us in with that lot? "

Hard to see any way with a recent POD that causes BC to consider union with Americans as a palatable option. Our powers as a province within confederation are more than adequate to satisfy any issues that might come up with Ottawa. There have been separatist parties for years, and most of the 90's were spent electing the party not in power, and it didn't lead to anything.

I think you would have to go much further back. Possibly a codominion of the old Oregon territory leading to a separate state. I think there was a TL that followed that idea, somewhere about.
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The problem with that is that with a PoD that far back, an independent Oregon Territory wouldn't have the modern characteristics of the area - different culture, etc. It would technically satisfy the challenge, though.
 

Laplace's Demon

Northern California, Oregon, and Washington are possible. San Francisco is the capital of the American counterculture and green movements, Oregon has the whole "State of Jefferson" thing in its 20th century past, and Eastern Oregon and Washington are, to generalize, chock-full of anti-government militia types, by reputation anyway.

Oregon and Washington also seem to have a lot of left-of-Democrat Democrats and progressives and right-of-Republican Republicans and libertarians/constitutionalists.

Anyway, maybe Jerry Brown stops running for President, runs for a third term as governor instead of trying to become a Senator, and uses his influence as California Democratic Party chairman to transform the state-level party into one more in line with the leftist, green, and other counter-cultural movements he drew support from in OTL. Term limits weren't enacted in OTL in California until 1990, so, if he can keep getting elected, he could theoretically continue being governor up and beyond 2012, considering OTL's Jerry Brown is still alive and kicking.

The West Coast being seen as that crazy place that has had the American ATL equivalent of OTL's Hugo Chavez in power "since forever" could help drive a wedge, as could Brown directing his condemnation at the Reagan Administration rather than his Democratic Party rivals. Heck, Brown continuing to be Governor throughout the eighties could lead to some jurisdictional back-biting, a "war" if you will between the state of California and the federal government. It would have to hurt if all throughout his two terms in office Reagan had to deal with the governor of his own state constantly harangue him and act as the national voice of opposition to him.

Forming some sort of regional rather than party-based governors association with the governors of Oregon and Washington would also help.
 

libbrit

Banned
Laplace's Demon said:
Northern California, Oregon, and Washington are possible. San Francisco is the capital of the American counterculture and green movements, Oregon has the whole "State of Jefferson" thing in its 20th century past, and Eastern Oregon and Washington are, to generalize, chock-full of anti-government militia types, by reputation anyway.

Oregon and Washington also seem to have a lot of left-of-Democrat Democrats and progressives and right-of-Republican Republicans and libertarians/constitutionalists.

Anyway, maybe Jerry Brown stops running for President, runs for a third term as governor instead of trying to become a Senator, and uses his influence as California Democratic Party chairman to transform the state-level party into one more in line with the leftist, green, and other counter-cultural movements he drew support from in OTL. Term limits weren't enacted in OTL in California until 1990, so, if he can keep getting elected, he could theoretically continue being governor up and beyond 2012, considering OTL's Jerry Brown is still alive and kicking.

The West Coast being seen as that crazy place that has had the American ATL equivalent of OTL's Hugo Chavez in power "since forever" could help drive a wedge, as could Brown directing his condemnation at the Reagan Administration rather than his Democratic Party rivals. Heck, Brown continuing to be Governor throughout the eighties could lead to some jurisdictional back-biting, a "war" if you will between the state of California and the federal government. It would have to hurt if all throughout his two terms in office Reagan had to deal with the governor of his own state constantly harangue him and act as the national voice of opposition to him.

Forming some sort of regional rather than party-based governors association with the governors of Oregon and Washington would also help.
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Also, an interesting idea to create a sense of `west coast solidarity`, is some sort of Hurricane Katrina style disaster, in which, as with Hurricane Katrina, the federal response is woefully inadequate, and the affected states are kind of forced to rely on each other to get through the crisis (perhaps an earthquake that causes some sort of tsunami that ravages the northwest coast?)
 

Deleted member 40957

Laplace's Demon said:
Anyway, maybe Jerry Brown stops running for President, runs for a third term as governor instead of trying to become a Senator, and uses his influence as California Democratic Party chairman to transform the state-level party into one more in line with the leftist, green, and other counter-cultural movements he drew support from in OTL. Term limits weren't enacted in OTL in California until 1990, so, if he can keep getting elected, he could theoretically continue being governor up and beyond 2012, considering OTL's Jerry Brown is still alive and kicking.
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I like this. It could also lead to a more serious push for California partition, which is something the SoCal Republicans have been harping on for a long time.

If Brown has a locked-in majority and stays on as governor for decades, Orange County and the rest of the conservative south will feel permanently unrepresented and might try to split - giving us a separate state of North California which could gravitate towards Cascadia more easily and also keep the idea of secession fresh in everyone's minds.
 
iori

iori

While you could have the movement develop/become popular in the 20th century, the PoD needs to be in the 19th century.

I may support an Independent Cascadia, but even I recognize it's ASB in the timeframe provided.


Also, you should probably be clear by what definition you're using, as their are several, however the most common is just the states Oregon, Washington and the province of British Columbia, while Idaho is included as well at times.

The definition that includes parts of California and other places are only the borders of a broader Bioregion or the Columbia River watershed, which are not considered part of the political concept of Cascadia by most.
 

Deleted member 40957

Iori said:
While you could have the movement develop/become popular in the 20th century, the PoD needs to be in the 19th century.

I may support an Independent Cascadia, but even I recognize it's ASB in the timeframe provided.
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Actual independence certainly is ASB in that timeframe, but I don't think people taking the idea seriously is.

Iori said:
Also, you should probably be clear by what definition you're using, as their are several, however the most common is just the states Oregon, Washington and the province of British Columbia, while Idaho is included as well at times.

The definition that includes parts of California and other places are only the borders of a broader Bioregion or the Columbia River watershed, which are not considered part of the political concept of Cascadia by most.
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I was originally thinking just the classic OR/WA/BC but since Laplace's Demon had some good ideas about California I looked a bit at that as well. The scope of the movement will depend on the PoD.
 

Deleted member 40957

Orville_third said:
Make the novel Ecotopia more popular and have people seeking to implement it on the local level...then beyond...
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Well, it was a bestseller when it came out, but I agree that people taking it more seriously is pretty essential for this challenge.
 
iori

iori

Orville_third said:
Make the novel Ecotopia more popular and have people seeking to implement it on the local level...then beyond...
Click to expand...

No one's going to take that book seriously since the guy did'nt even bother looking at the cultures in the West.

While the Western coast is primarily Urbanized, it DOES NOT share a single culture.

A Washingtonian from Seattle hare more in common with a farmer in Walla Walla than they do someone in Los Angeles for example.
 
Clandango

Clandango

Keep in mind that the thing with the State of Jefferson was against the governments of Oregon and California due to their perceived lack of attention to their region. I personally doubt something like Cascadia has much appeal outside of a few urban Internet users though if the POD was pushed back further to keep the Rockies in Federal, native, and Mormon hands you might have got a greater possibility for Pacific, especially if British Columbia does not join Canada. Might want to do something with the railroads, who were given a fourth of the West for free.
 

Laplace's Demon

I think the counterculture movement, then the green movement, and then an equivalent of the survivalist/militia/Perot voter movement could provide the activist thrust for the gradual growth of a Cascadian movement.
 
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