star trek II - without Khan

Archibald · Oct 10, 2012

The first Star Trek motion picture was not well received, so Roddenberry was pushed aside and Harve Bennett hired instead.
He had a little issue, however: he had never watched a single episode of the original series.
He filled this knowledge gap in a hurry, watching all 79 episodes in search for an idea.
And he stumbled on that season 1 episode "space seed".

http://www.trektoday.com/content/2010/08/harve-bennett-putting-trek-back-on-track/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Seed

Whatif Bennett missed that episode and the second motion picture was, well, based on another TOS episode ?

What episode would you have chosen ?

(I don't know much of Star Trek, but I thought it may make for an interesting POD...)

Gentlemen, starts your engines !

ColeMercury · Oct 10, 2012

Well, there's no guarantee that Star Trek II would be a sequel to any specific episode. If I remember correctly, Bennett decided to continue the story of "Space Seed" because it particularly stood out, especially with its open ending.

Derek Pullem · Oct 10, 2012

Something based on "The City on the Edge of Forever" would have been really cool. In fact the New Trek film series could use this as well to try (and fail) to save Vulcan!

PMN1 · Oct 10, 2012

There is a two part book series that uses Spocks son Zar and the Guardian of Forever.

Zar was concevied when Spock and McCoy were thrown back into the past of Sarpedian during the episide All Our Yesterdays.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Sarpeidon

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Yesterday's_Son

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Time_for_Yesterday

RedDogGaz · Oct 10, 2012

Gorns

A film with Gorns done with good effects (not rubber suits!) would be great.
Would love to see their ships done in the same way as Star Fleet Battles ships too.

Tom_B · Oct 10, 2012

Ancillary question

Actually something I've frequently wondered about is if they did not use Khan in the ST films how might they have developed Khan in ST:TNG. A good case could be made that with his superior genes Khan would age slower than a normal human.

unclepatrick · Oct 12, 2012

If I recall correctly, The original idea for the second movie was going to be a Time travel story around JFK assassination. Suppose to have Spock shooting JFK with a Phaser.

ColeMercury · Oct 12, 2012

unclepatrick said:
If I recall correctly, The original idea for the second movie was going to be a Time travel story around JFK assassination. Suppose to have Spock shooting JFK with a Phaser.

That was Gene Roddenberry's idea. Bennett et al thought it was a terrible idea and ignored him.

Fearless Leader · Oct 12, 2012

The mirror universe would've been cool too...

unclepatrick · Oct 13, 2012

ColeMercury said:
That was Gene Roddenberry's idea. Bennett et al thought it was a terrible idea and ignored him.

Hey I agree with Bennett. It is a terrible idea. I only seen two good shows that did something good with the JFK killing.
Witchblade, with the film footage of the hit team but before they can fire, Shots comes from the Schoolbook depository. "Hey, We don't Have anyone in the Schoolbook Depository"

and Red Dwarf, JFK kills JFK. "The Conspiracy freaks are never going to figure this out".

asupackman · Oct 13, 2012

unclepatrick said:
If I recall correctly, The original idea for the second movie was going to be a Time travel story around JFK assassination. Suppose to have Spock shooting JFK with a Phaser.

If I remember Shatner's book "Star Trek Movie Memories" correctly Roddenberry pitched this idea for every movie after the first one.

DanMcCollum · Oct 13, 2012

How about "Mirror, Mirror" which also had an open ending (*Spock agreeing to help undermine the Terran Empire) and an attempt to show a corrupted version of our noble heros (which might have played very well with the culture at the time). Also, well, its my favorite episode

Lord Insane · Oct 13, 2012

DanMcCollum said:
How about "Mirror, Mirror" which also had an open ending (*Spock agreeing to help undermine the Terran Empire) and an attempt to show a corrupted version of our noble heros (which might have played very well with the culture at the time). Also, well, its my favorite episode

Mirror, Mirror is even more open-ended than that: Mirror-Spock doesn't agree to help undermine the Terran Empire, he agrees to considering doing so. So a very open ending, and story potential in the basic concept of the Mirror Universe... I could see it, if Space Seed is missed.

DanMcCollum · Oct 13, 2012

LordInsane said:
Mirror, Mirror is even more open-ended than that: Mirror-Spock doesn't agree to help undermine the Terran Empire, he agrees to considering doing so. So a very open ending, and story potential in the basic concept of the Mirror Universe... I could see it, if Space Seed is missed.

I could see it now: Alt-Kirk breaks knowledge of the Federation to the Empire, painting himself as the hero who beat back the incursion. Growing close to the Terran Emperor, they plan to break the barrier between the Universes with the possibility of eventual invasion. Kirk is chosen to lead a small incursion to survey the Universe and to test the Federation's defenses.

Back in our unvierse, Kirk and the Enterprise are called into service, when reports emerge of the Enterprise attacking worlds on the border with Klingon space.

It eventually becomes evident that Alt-Kirk is attempting to start a war between the Federation and the Klingons to weaken both for an eventualy cross-universe invasion by the Empire.

Hmmmm ...

unclepatrick · Oct 13, 2012

DanMcCollum said:
I could see it now: Alt-Kirk breaks knowledge of the Federation to the Empire, painting himself as the hero who beat back the incursion. Growing close to the Terran Emperor, they plan to break the barrier between the Universes with the possibility of eventual invasion. Kirk is chosen to lead a small incursion to survey the Universe and to test the Federation's defenses.

Back in our unvierse, Kirk and the Enterprise are called into service, when reports emerge of the Enterprise attacking worlds on the border with Klingon space.

It eventually becomes evident that Alt-Kirk is attempting to start a war between the Federation and the Klingons to weaken both for an eventualy cross-universe invasion by the Empire.

Hmmmm ...

Could work. I think Mike Barr did a similar story for DC Comics.

jkarr · Oct 13, 2012

unclepatrick said:
Hey I agree with Bennett. It is a terrible idea. I only seen two good shows that did something good with the JFK killing.
Witchblade, with the film footage of the hit team but before they can fire, Shots comes from the Schoolbook depository. "Hey, We don't Have anyone in the Schoolbook Depository"

and Red Dwarf, JFK kills JFK. "The Conspiracy freaks are never going to figure this out".

i liked what quantum leap did the theme myself...after all that it was jackie who sam was meant to save...bit of a twist at the end

Archibald · Oct 14, 2012

Thank you all for all your suggestions. I was quite sure it was the right forum to ask - and I was right. Keep on !

unclepatrick · Oct 14, 2012

I would have like to have seen the John Meredyth Lucas script Kitumba about the enterprise have to go the Klingon home planet to make peace with the emperor, who turn out to be a young child and the crew get involved with the politics of the Klingon as different groups try to influence the kid.
Lucas proposed it for the aborted Star Trek Phase 2

Yes Klingon Politics has been done to death by Next gen and DS9 but at the time we never seen it before and it would have made a interesting Film.

The Fan production Phase II is working on a adaption of Kitumba but has had problems.

Dave Howery · Oct 14, 2012

DanMcCollum said:
I could see it now: Alt-Kirk breaks knowledge of the Federation to the Empire, painting himself as the hero who beat back the incursion. Growing close to the Terran Emperor, they plan to break the barrier between the Universes with the possibility of eventual invasion. Kirk is chosen to lead a small incursion to survey the Universe and to test the Federation's defenses.

Back in our unvierse, Kirk and the Enterprise are called into service, when reports emerge of the Enterprise attacking worlds on the border with Klingon space.

It eventually becomes evident that Alt-Kirk is attempting to start a war between the Federation and the Klingons to weaken both for an eventualy cross-universe invasion by the Empire.

Hmmmm ...

wow... they should have done that one for film 5, instead of the 'Spock's brother goes to see... God?" one they actually did...

phx1138 · Nov 19, 2012

Two possibilities, both on the lighthearted side: look at the consequences to the Klingons of more tribbles. Or at the consequences to the Fed of the Iotians (from "A Piece of the Action") adapting tech based on McCoy's missing communicator.