AHC restore the French monarchy (constitutional figurehead only)

[Titus_Pullo]

Would it be possible for the French Republic to restore the monarchy today as a constitutional monarchy like England and Spain? Which families would be the most logical choice? Would it be the Bonapartes?

[Wolfpaw]

I frankly think that the Orleanists have the best claim to the royal crown of France. The Bonapartes have no claim to the royal crown of France, merely the imperial crown. So France would have to make a rather important choice between "Roi" and "Empereur."

[Titus_Pullo]

Originally Posted by Wolfpaw

I frankly think that the Orleanists have the best claim to the royal crown of France. The Bonapartes have no claim to the royal crown of France, merely the imperial crown. So France would have to make a rather important choice between "Roi" and "Empereur."

Either way, one of those two families will raise a stink. If Orleanists the Bonapartes will complain, if the Bonapartes the Orelanists will complain.

[Zuvarq]

Originally Posted by Titus_Pullo

Either way, one of those two families will raise a stink. If Orleanists the Bonapartes will complain, if the Bonapartes the Orelanists will complain.

That's why it ought to be a ceremonial diumvirate between the Bonapartes and Orleanists.

[jakewilson]

For a twentieth century POD, the Franco option is the best bet. Right-wing dictator decides 'après moi, le roi.' And then the king quickly moves to democracy, being a sensible Orleanist.

[Wolfpaw]

Originally Posted by Titus_Pullo

Either way, one of those two families will raise a stink. If Orleanists the Bonapartes will complain, if the Bonapartes the Orelanists will complain.

The Bonapartists didn't have nearly as much pull after the Boulanger Affair, which damaged them far more than it did the resurgent Orleanists.

[M. Adolphe Thiers]

Originally Posted by Titus_Pullo

Would it be possible for the French Republic to restore the monarchy today as a constitutional monarchy like England and Spain? Which families would be the most logical choice? Would it be the Bonapartes?

The Comte de Chambord dies earlier than OTL (flu, accident, whatever), and as a result the Opportunist Republican faction doesn't emerge. Philippe VII is restored as monarch, leaving only a minority of Legitimists to grumble about the Carlists being the true king, and Bonapartists.

Any time after 1900 requires some kind of Francoist dictator, as already stated.

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Originally Posted by M. Adolphe Thiers

Any time after 1900 requires some kind of Francoist dictator, as already stated.

No, it doesn't. Quite.

If at some point monarchies seem like a reasonable democratic institution (and Juan Carlos did a great job of pushing that), AND if there was a massive meltdown in the French Republican system, I could see a restored monarchy rather than e.g. a 6th republic, if those were the options. Low probability, I'm sure, but possible.

So...
Fall of the Soviet empire happens earlier. A couple of post-Soviet nations (e.g. Bulgaria and Romania are obvious candidates) stabilize under restored monarchies. That with Juan Carlos in Spain makes 'monarchy as a guarantor of democratic stability in electoral chaos' a viable meme. Even in France. France has a totally unworkable co-habitation (president and premier of different parties, and they feud, making government totally unmanageable).

Even in that scenario a French monarchy is probably only 10-25% likely, and that scenario is very unlikely so....

[Archibald]

a French monarchy is probably only 10-25% likely

Fixed - a French monarchy is probably only 1-0.1% likely. Even a figure only, Spain / Britain style, there's still a lot of hatred and resent against any king or king lookalike (see what happened to Sarkozy )
Post 1870 (or 1883 and the death of chambord) it is pretty much ASB. The 3rd republic destroyed any chance of restauration for a very long time.
And it did not helped very much past 1900 the remaining royalists melted with the Action Française, which was then discredited by Vichy. Today royalists smell too much of Vichy and far-right to have any chance.

[Imladrik]

Originally Posted by Dathi THorfinnsson

France has a totally unworkable co-habitation (president and premier of different parties, and they feud, making government totally unmanageable).

If there is a cohabitation and the preesident and premier feud, the premier will do the obvious thing : ignore him, as he has all the power and the president none of them.

[M. Adolphe Thiers]

Originally Posted by Archibald

Fixed - a French monarchy is probably only 1-0.1% likely. Even a figure only, Spain / Britain style, there's still a lot of hatred and resent against any king or king lookalike (see what happened to Sarkozy )
Post 1870 (or 1883 and the death of chambord) it is pretty much ASB. The 3rd republic destroyed any chance of restauration for a very long time.
And it did not helped very much past 1900 the remaining royalists melted with the Action Française, which was then discredited by Vichy. Today royalists smell too much of Vichy and far-right to have any chance.

I agree 100%. Before WWII, many Frenchmen may have thought that the Orleans were decent people, although not worthy of being King. Vichy and the far-right in the 1930s totally destroyed that sentiment. Nowadays, they come across as too close to being collaborators, fascist apologists, and are derided by most people, especially when the previous pretender's estate problems were publicized.

[Wolfpaw]

Originally Posted by M. Adolphe Thiers

I agree 100%. Before WWII, many Frenchmen may have thought that the Orleans were decent people, although not worthy of being King. Vichy and the far-right in the 1930s totally destroyed that sentiment. Nowadays, they come across as too close to being collaborators, fascist apologists, and are derided by most people, especially when the previous pretender's estate problems were publicized.

I find the Orleans family amusing. "What happened to our Royal wealth?"

"Papa spent it all on his mistresses--"

"A proud tradition of all French royalty!"

"--so we don't own the chateau at Amiens anymore."

"Well...merde."

"Was it...it was easier when we were Kings, wasn't it?"

"Oh, who remembers anymore?"

[M. Adolphe Thiers]

Originally Posted by Wolfpaw

I find the Orleans family amusing. "What happened to our Royal wealth?"

"Papa spent it all on his mistresses--"

"A proud tradition of all French royalty!"

"--so we don't own the chateau at Amiens anymore."

"Well...merde."

"Was it...it was easier when we were Kings, wasn't it?"

"Oh, who remembers anymore?"

I do feel bad for Prince Jean and his generation, the amount of money that was being thrown away was ridiculous. It'll take decades of PR for that kind of negative image to be deflated.

[Wolfpaw]

I agree, it is rather unfortunate for Prince Jean. What's the story with today's Bonapartes and Legitimistes? Similarly cash-strapped, I assume? Or have the Legis made a home for themselves in Spain?

[Stolengood]

Any Bourbons left?

[Wolfpaw]

Originally Posted by Stolengood

Any Bourbons left?

Split between the Orléanistes and the Légitimistes. The former claim the throne by way of Louis Philippe and the latter claim it through a link to Louis XIV (the Légitimistes believe that the Spanish Carlists are the true heirs to both the French and Spanish thrones).

[black angel]

Originally Posted by Titus_Pullo

Would it be possible for the French Republic to restore the monarchy today as a constitutional monarchy like England and Spain? Which families would be the most logical choice? Would it be the Bonapartes?

not all that hard, the 3rd Republic was meant as a place holder until the hard to deal with Henri, Count of Chambord died, but much to the sadness of Prince Philippe, Count of Paris the Count lasted much longer than any one though (13 years) and it turned out every one was basically happy with the Republic and the Count of Paris lost out on being king, if we're looking for a post-1900s POD got no ideas, but maybe have a very divided and unpopular 3rd republic in 1883 and you end up with a Monarchy

[Wolfpaw]

I've always been a fan of (the somewhat clichéd) scenario of a neo-Royalist France emerging from a defeat in WWI.

So let's say that the French right gets its shit in order sometime in the '30s, and we have Action Française running the show with King Jean III sitting pretty in Paris.

[M. Adolphe Thiers]

Originally Posted by Wolfpaw

I agree, it is rather unfortunate for Prince Jean. What's the story with today's Bonapartes and Legitimistes? Similarly cash-strapped, I assume? Or have the Legis made a home for themselves in Spain?

The Ultra-legitimist monarchists have more or less merged with the Carlists in Spain, as the current "Duc de Anjou" is a Spanish Bourbon.

The Bonapartists I know the least about, but I do know they live in Corsica, and one pretender ran unsuccessfully for Mayor of Ajaccio a few years ago.

[Wolfpaw]

Originally Posted by M. Adolphe Thiers

The Bonapartists I know the least about, but I do know they live in Corsica, and one pretender ran unsuccessfully for Mayor of Ajaccio a few years ago.

That is adorable

Though as Simeon of Bulgaria has taught us, there may still be a place for Old Royals if they focus on something other than their regnal claims and pissing away their fortune.