Explain to me the evolution of Jewish prejudice

[SPJ]

Can anyone hear explain to me the origins and evolution of the prejudice against Jewish people and how some stereotypes about them include that they are all money loving, power hungry, and desire world domination like a James Bond villain?

[Max Sinister]

Well, for a beginning Jews in medieval Europe were neither allowed to own land nor become artisans, so there weren't many jobs left. So they started to lend money to Christians, for interest.

[eliphas8]

The money grubbing stereotype comes from the fact that they where the only major European group allowed to be involved in banking and charge interest at a time when usury was seen as an evil greedy concept which was sinful to take part in. The power hungry is more vague but it likely comes also from the fact that in the european and muslim countries there tended to be many Jews in royal court and beyond since they where in no way a threat to the king (they relied on royal approval for their safety) and many ended up serving highly important jobs for the king. The world domination one is just an extension of the two previous stereotypes to their most extreme version..

[M. Adolphe Thiers]

Originally Posted by SPJ

Can anyone hear explain to me the origins and evolution of the prejudice against Jewish people and how some stereotypes about them include that they are all money loving, power hungry, and desire world domination like a James Bond villain?

Well, in Christianity, Anti-Semitism was fanned through things like Deicide and literalist interpretations of the Gospel of John. It's ironic, because a lot of Anti-Semitic myths like Blood Libel came from Christological concepts, which the Middle East and Muslim World swallowed whole in the 20th Century thanks to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. The Qur'an also has a few Suras that talk of Jews as being untrustworthy, so that help explains a lot.

Plus, Jews are a visible minority community that has often resisted assimilation. Not always, Al-Andalus is good example of assimilation.

The money aspect came from Christian rulers forcing them to be bankers to skirt usury laws as previously stated.

[Maxwell Edison II]

Originally Posted by SPJ

Can anyone hear explain to me the origins and evolution of the prejudice against Jewish people and how some stereotypes about them include that they are all money loving, power hungry, and desire world domination like a James Bond villain?

Challenge: find an equivalent non-geographic minority that hasn't been discriminated against.

See?

If the Jews were accepted into gentile society early on or if the Jews "mixed" with the gentiles, then they'd very quickly cease being a distinct group.

[Herzen's love-child]

Originally Posted by M. Adolphe Thiers

Well, in Christianity, Anti-Semitism was fanned through things like Deicide and literalist interpretations of the Gospel of John. It's ironic, because a lot of Anti-Semitic myths like Blood Libel came from Christological concepts, which the Middle East and Muslim World swallowed whole in the 20th Century thanks to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. The Qur'an also has a few Suras that talk of Jews as being untrustworthy, so that help explains a lot.

Plus, Jews are a visible minority community that has often resisted assimilation. Not always, Al-Andalus is good example of assimilation.

The money aspect came from Christian rulers forcing them to be bankers to skirt usury laws as previously stated.

The "Protocols" being a fabrication of the Czarist secret police in the fertile environment of popular anti-semitism in Russia.
re. Al-Andalus----not assimilation but tolerance relative to the rest of Europe. The Andalusian Jews remained a distinct community, by and large.There were periods of intense anti-semetic pogroms in Muslim Spain, too.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by Maxwell Edison II

Challenge: find an equivalent non-geographic minority that hasn't been discriminated against.

See?

If the Jews were accepted into gentile society early on or if the Jews "mixed" with the gentiles, then they'd very quickly cease being a distinct group.

How about the Jains?

[M. Adolphe Thiers]

Originally Posted by Herzen's love-child

The "Protocols" being a fabrication of the Czarist secret police in the fertile environment of popular anti-semitism in Russia.
re. Al-Andalus----not assimilation but tolerance relative to the rest of Europe. The Andalusian Jews remained a distinct community, by and large.There were periods of intense anti-semetic pogroms in Muslim Spain, too.

Well, Andalusian Jews adopted Arabic and the customs of the Muslim elite rather well. Many of the best Andalusian writers were Jews.

I'm also aware of the Okrana creating the Protocols, That's why Antisemitism that is in the Middle East these days is bizarre. Blood libel partly comes from the weird European fear that Jews were killing children for Matzo in some weird way of mocking the Eucharist and the crucifixion.

[Grognard42]

Originally Posted by Max Sinister

Well, for a beginning Jews in medieval Europe were neither allowed to own land nor become artisans, so there weren't many jobs left. So they started to lend money to Christians, for interest.

I'm wondering if it may have roots predating the Christian era. The Jews were one of the few ethnic groups in the Roman Empire that absolutly refused to incorporate or adopt any of the Greco-Roman gods. ( not to mention the repeated wars that the Empire waged against the Jews)

[Orko]

Originally Posted by Grognard42

I'm wondering if it may have roots predating the Christian era. The Jews were one of the few ethnic groups in the Roman Empire that absolutly refused to incorporate or adopt any of the Greco-Roman gods. ( not to mention the repeated wars that the Empire waged against the Jews)

Well, the Jewish religion is unique for that time and was seen as strange for the Greco-Romans. While they did not seek to actively proselytize their religion (most of the time; John Hyrcanus forcibly converted some people to Judaism), they also would not accept any other god but their own. This was seen as borderline offensive for the Greeks that tried to Hellenize the Jews.

I do vaguely remember hearing something somewhere about Jews being known fo usury even before Jesus' birth, but I'm probably just imagining.

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Originally Posted by Orko

I do vaguely remember hearing something somewhere about Jews being known fo usury even before Jesus' birth, but I'm probably just imagining.

Actually, Jews are prohibited from practising usury... with other jews. Just like muslims are among themselves or christians (were).
But each could lend at interest to infidels....

Also, of cours the siren song of profit often drowns out religious scruples.

[Unconsensual]

A part of the reason was that the Jewish faith was quite inspiring and reclusive at the same time. (especially earlier on when they were among the few religions that offered a redemption-condemnation scale as opposed to the majority that just offered various levels of condemnation in the afterlife )

This didn't lead well to assimilation and after the Jews killed every Heretic in their revolt against the Romans they were sold into slavery all around the empire. (light punishment considering that they depopulated an entire region). The resultant demographics was that of a visibly different minority present almost everywhere with distinct practices and responsible for "unsavory" jobs such as bankers (since all of the land already belonged to the natives), a universal scapegoat.

[metastasis_d]

This post by Elessar does a good job of explaining it, in part.

I have it saved in my AH bookmarks as I draw upon it all the time in discussions with people outside this site.

[SPJ]

Originally Posted by metastasis_d

This post by Elessar does a good job of explaining it, in part.

I have it saved in my AH bookmarks as I draw upon it all the time in discussions with people outside this site.

Is there supposed to be a link?

[metastasis_d]

Originally Posted by SPJ

Is there supposed to be a link?

My bad; forgot to include it.

http://www.alternatehistory.com/disc...1&postcount=11

[Massa Chief]

The Shoah is (possibly sharing it with the Gulag Archipelago) THE great human atrocity. Unto no other people has such a wretched and terrible death been bequeathed- it dwarfs Mitzrayim, Babylon, the Diaspora, the Inquisition, and Russia in its horror. We were systematically slaughtered like animals on the ideas of "race"- it truly was the culmination of hatred towards us, a great response to the central dilemma of our Diaspora. I imagine it is the same for the Roma, who with us share that terrible fate of history, of shared condemnation.

Whereas we always suffered as a scattered, incredibly ethnocentric, trader people with no arms or state to back us, the Shoah condemned us for our blood, the very thing by which we defined ourselves, and sent us to die like animals.

As for anti-Jewish prejudice overall, a number a factors come into play.
Firstly, the death of Christ and our Diaspora into mainly Christian lands didn't help. Then, our unique economic niche- we were the lenders, the specialized craft people, until the Kings owed us too much and we were killed/expelled. Stereotypes began to develop in Europe, and took deep hold into the feudal and post-feudal culture of Europe. Darwin only provided a modernist outlet for these feelings- we, without our own state, would always fear the great massacres.

We will never forget the Shoah, just as we never forgot Antiokhos, the Romans, Haman, Egypt and every suffering brought upon us. The Shoah is the culmination of our woes, the pinnacle of our wretched existence, the nadir of our "forty years" in the wilderness of the Western world.

[MalcontentRex]

Human nature. Envy. People always resent a small, educated, highly successful group, especially if it tries to maintain a distinct identity.

[The Ubbergeek]

Originally Posted by Massa Chief

The Shoah is (possibly sharing it with the Gulag Archipelago) THE great human atrocity. Unto no other people has such a wretched and terrible death been bequeathed- it dwarfs Mitzrayim, Babylon, the Diaspora, the Inquisition, and Russia in its horror. We were systematically slaughtered like animals on the ideas of "race"- it truly was the culmination of hatred towards us, a great response to the central dilemma of our Diaspora. I imagine it is the same for the Roma, who with us share that terrible fate of history, of shared condemnation.

Whereas we always suffered as a scattered, incredibly ethnocentric, trader people with no arms or state to back us, the Shoah condemned us for our blood, the very thing by which we defined ourselves, and sent us to die like animals.

As for anti-Jewish prejudice overall, a number a factors come into play.
Firstly, the death of Christ and our Diaspora into mainly Christian lands didn't help. Then, our unique economic niche- we were the lenders, the specialized craft people, until the Kings owed us too much and we were killed/expelled. Stereotypes began to develop in Europe, and took deep hold into the feudal and post-feudal culture of Europe. Darwin only provided a modernist outlet for these feelings- we, without our own state, would always fear the great massacres.

We will never forget the Shoah, just as we never forgot Antiokhos, the Romans, Haman, Egypt and every suffering brought upon us. The Shoah is the culmination of our woes, the pinnacle of our wretched existence, the nadir of our "forty years" in the wilderness of the Western world.

It have to be added, for the Shoah but also perhaps antisemitism in general - the Jews were the target 1, but others like Romas suffered HARD too, and in fact, they have it worse right now than jews nowaday on one side - VERY few care to defend the romas right now, as the events in France shown.... And the hatefull spiel heard in some parts of Europe against romas are incredible for the time we are in,....

[Massa Chief]

And that is why I added them, for they are akin to us in many, many ways.

[Kishan]

Originally Posted by Beedok

How about the Jains?

Very small minority groups which do not appear to be a menace to the majority are usually not descriminated. In India there are several minority groups like Jains, Parsis, Buddhists etc. who are not even noticed by others. The Muslims are the only religious group that are likely to face descrimination in India at times and there are historical reasons for it.