Just how significant could the IRA have been in WW2?

Xachiavelli

With a POD in the 30s or later, just how much of a difference could these guys have made to the course of WW2?

I'm doubting they'd change the course of the war, but i'm willing to bet they could at least be a thorn in Britain's side. My question is just how big could this thorn be?
 

sparky42

Xachiavelli said:
With a POD in the 30s or later, just how much of a difference could these guys have made to the course of WW2?

I'm doubting they'd change the course of the war, but i'm willing to bet they could at least be a thorn in Britain's side. My question is just how big could this thorn be?
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I don't see how, Dev had no problem going after them during the war from memory and the German attempts to work with them were at best non functional.

Absent a massive and systemic change within the Free State in the 30's the IRA would never have had the strength or backing to be anything like a thorn, consider the total amount of damage the Provo's with much more powerful resources in the Troubles did compared the damage the German's did in WW2 to the UK.

If they had ever caused a problem the Free State would have moved on them or allowed Churchill a Cause Belli to get the ports back.
 

jamsodonnell

Xachiavelli said:
With a POD in the 30s or later, just how much of a difference could these guys have made to the course of WW2?

I'm doubting they'd change the course of the war, but i'm willing to bet they could at least be a thorn in Britain's side. My question is just how big could this thorn be?
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Very little difference in the scheme of things. S-Plan the bombings campaing in 1938-39 might have gone on a bit longer. The IRA could have caused some disruption in the early stages of WWII but not much longer.

The IRA was gutted in Ireland during WWII. Most of the leadership was interned in "Tintown" in the Curragh. The likes of Sean Russell the IRA Chief of Staff and Frank Ryan did end up in Germany but Russell died en route to Ireland Ryan stayed in Germany and died before the end of WWII. German attempts to get agents into Ireland were laughable.

if Ireland decided not to intern IRA members at the start of the war and if Abwher forged better links with the IRA in the few years before the war (it did forge some links) then maybe the IA could have been a bigger thorn in Britain's side for a little while.

Ireland would be pressured to clamp down on the IRA very quickly so the leadership probably would end up in Tintown a few months later than was the case.
 

Dathi THorfinnsson

Many splinter groups of the modern ira are marxist. Had that happened at all yet by wwii, and if so, how would that affect relations with the nazis?
 

sparky42

Dathi THorfinnsson said:
Many splinter groups of the modern ira are marxist. Had that happened at all yet by wwii, and if so, how would that affect relations with the nazis?
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As far as I know that Left bent would be more a hallmark of modern IRA/SF (ie Troubles) then anything back in the WW2 time frame, I can't think of any connection to the USSR at the time.
 

Xachiavelli

Dathi THorfinnsson said:
Many splinter groups of the modern ira are marxist. Had that happened at all yet by wwii, and if so, how would that affect relations with the nazis?
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I suspect that Hitler would adopt a 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend' stance to that.

Plus, some of the activity could take place before the invasion of the USSR
 

jamsodonnell

Xachiavelli said:
I suspect that Hitler would adopt a 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend' stance to that.

Plus, some of the activity could take place before the invasion of the USSR
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But the IRA was not a marxist organisation at the time although it was rather left leaning. It was pretty hostile to the revolutionary Republican Congress that was set up by Frank Ryan in the 30s.

To be honest all of the IRA's activity would take place before Barbarossa. If it tried terrorist or sabotage acts during WWII (over and above the S Plan which petered out in early 1940) the the British and Irish response will be harsher than it was IOTL.
 

jamsodonnell

Xachiavelli said:
If Hitler were to invade Ireland somehow, do you think he'd install an IRA puppet?

I'm really not sure what the 'new world order' said about Ireland
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IF Germany could find the ships it needed for the invading forces and initial suplies

IF the force was not badly smashed up by the RAF and the RN

and If it could defeat the British forces that would cross the border. The Irish army could not hold the Germans

then I would put money of former Blueshirt Leader Eoin O Duffy as a puppet leader rather than some IRA figure released from the Curragh
 

sparky42

jamsodonnell said:
IF Germany could find the ships it needed for the invading forces and initial suplies

IF the force was not badly smashed up by the RAF and the RN

and If it could defeat the British forces that would cross the border. The Irish army could not hold the Germans

then I would put money of former Blueshirt Leader Eoin O Duffy as a puppet leader rather than some IRA figure released from the Curragh
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Wasn't Case Green meant for after the unmentionable operation?

Besides since the UK and Ireland had developed plans for this I would think that the Germans would have just wasted their strength while bringing the Irish ports into British use.
 

wietze

but it might also been a interesting pod if stalin decides to stir things up a little to delay the allies so he can grab more of germany


edit: so it would be an IRA that has closer connections with the USSR or an ira nfiltrated by the NKVD (like their british spies)
 
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jamsodonnell

sparky42 said:
Wasn't Case Green meant for after the unmentionable operation?

Besides since the UK and Ireland had developed plans for this I would think that the Germans would have just wasted their strength while bringing the Irish ports into British use.
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Or as a diversionary attack. but whatever the situation if Sealion was half baked Case Green never made it to the oven:D

One things though if Cork and Cobh were in British use my father would have encountered the Luftwaffe a bit earlier in his life!
 

sparky42

jamsodonnell said:
Or as a diversionary attack. but whatever the situation if Sealion was half baked Case Green never made it to the oven:D

One things though if Cork and Cobh were in British use my father would have encountered the Luftwaffe a bit earlier in his life!
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That's probably the best way of describing the how likely Case Green was.

As for bring Ireland into the War, at this stage (presuming 1940) that would have a huge impact on Convoy's, escorts, maintenance (assuming the UK would help with skill sets to bring all the Graving docks online), positioning for airbases (perhaps Cork doesn't end up on a hill that spends most of its time in fog).

The additional numbers that may come into the allies would be a help at this stage as well, even in defence positions.
 
NHBL

NHBL

Cutting a deal...

Yhe IRA's best option would be to try to cut some sort of deal with Britain and the Free State, where more protections are accorded to Catholics in the North, and/or some border adjustments (Derry, perhaps?) and in return, the IRA urges all Irish to fight the evil in Europe-or at least, gets the British to be able to base ships in western Eire.

The IRA would do more good for their fellow Irish--Catholics and Protestants--this way than any other. Loosing Dev might help...
 

sparky42

NHBL said:
Yhe IRA's best option would be to try to cut some sort of deal with Britain and the Free State, where more protections are accorded to Catholics in the North, and/or some border adjustments (Derry, perhaps?) and in return, the IRA urges all Irish to fight the evil in Europe-or at least, gets the British to be able to base ships in western Eire.

The IRA would do more good for their fellow Irish--Catholics and Protestants--this way than any other. Loosing Dev might help...
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The IRA was never in the position to achieve any of that kind of result. They were a marginal force both militarily and politically, and I can't see wither the UK or the Irish Free State allowing them to be in a position to make terms like that.

It would be for the Free State to try and negotiate something like that in return for the Ports or Ireland's involvement in the War.
 

Xachiavelli

jamsodonnell said:
I would put money of former Blueshirt Leader Eoin O Duffy as a puppet leader rather than some IRA figure released from the Curragh
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Personally i always envisioned Seamus O'Donovan played a high-profile role in this. Perhaps i'm totally off-base here but it's what i thought
 

sparky42

Xachiavelli said:
Personally i always envisioned Seamus O'Donovan played a high-profile role in this. Perhaps i'm totally off-base here but it's what i thought
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Why would an IRA man get a bigger role from the Germans then a O Duffy whose shown support to fascist views?
 
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