Bugatti P110 fighter

AdA · Sep 25, 2012

I've read a few WI on other sites about the possibility of a Bugatti P110 Fighter developed from Bugatti's P100 race aircraft, sort of a French He100, but with stellar looks. Here's a simulated design from a french site. anyone has considered this possibility?

AdA · Sep 25, 2012

And here's the real thing after being hidden during the war.

MattII · Sep 25, 2012

I've been led to believe that putting pilots in prone positions is not a great idea

Petike · Sep 25, 2012

It was a very pretty, speedy and original plane for its time, but I do not think it would be good as a practical fighter. Not every plane that looks cool is automatically good for long-term combat in a full-scale war.

bekosh · Sep 25, 2012

MattII said:
I've been led to believe that putting pilots in prone positions is not a great idea

This. Plus, I've seen one in person at the EAA museum in Oshkosh, WI, and it is a very small aircraft.
I don't think that there would be enough room to add the military hardware (Armor, guns, radios, more fuel, etc...) to turn it into a fighter.

SPECIFICATIONS
Gross Weight: 3,086 lbs.
Wing Span: 27 ft.
Length: 25 ft. 5 in.
Height: 7 ft. 4 in.
Wing Area: 222.7 sq. ft.
Wing Loading: 13.9 lbs./sq. ft.
Power Loading: 3.44 lbs./hp
Design max speed: 500-550 mph
Engines: Two Bugatti Type 50B, 450 hp at 4500 rpm

It sure is pretty though.

AdA · Sep 25, 2012

I was thinking of a bigger version with Hispano-Suiza 12Y45.

AdA · Sep 25, 2012

From the images I'd say that the pilot would be siting in a laid back position, like in a Lotus 25 F1 Car, rather than prone. I could be wrong, though...

AdA · Sep 25, 2012

Another view...

Petike · Sep 25, 2012

AdA said:
From the images I'd say that the pilot would be siting in a laid back position, like in a Lotus 25 F1 Car, rather than prone. I could be wrong, though...

Correct. Pilots were sat within that thing roughly like in a modern sailplane.

Kevin Renner · Sep 25, 2012

Would any sane individual consider putting anything designed by Bugatti in mass production. Granted he built works of industrial art. But there is a big difference between limited production and building large numbers of an item.

Petike · Sep 25, 2012

Kevin Renner said:
Would any sane individual consider putting anything designed by Bugatti in mass production. Granted he built works of industrial art. But there is a big difference between limited production and building large numbers of an item.

Yes, that's the biggest plausibility consideration by far.

MattII · Sep 25, 2012

AdA said:
From the images I'd say that the pilot would be siting in a laid back position, like in a Lotus 25 F1 Car, rather than prone.

Ah right. Be prepared for major neck strain during manoeuvres then.

AdA · Sep 25, 2012

Kevin Renner said:
Would any sane individual consider putting anything designed by Bugatti in mass production. Granted he built works of industrial art. But there is a big difference between limited production and building large numbers of an item.

They did built 343 type 35 racing cars. Even a few P110 would , if speed estimates are anything to go by, provide an uninterceptable recce aircraft and a high speed interceptor.

BlairWitch749 · Sep 25, 2012

AdA said:
They did built 343 type 35 racing cars. Even a few P110 would , if speed estimates are anything to go by, provide an uninterceptable recce aircraft and a high speed interceptor.

how can it intercept if it can't maneuver for shit; that wing layout doesn't lend itself to aerobatic maneuvers

AdA · Sep 25, 2012

First, I doubt it's unmanouvrable as you think.
Second, high speed pass hit and run intercepts.

BlairWitch749 · Sep 25, 2012

AdA said:
First, I doubt it's unmanouvrable as you think.
Second, high speed pass hit and run intercepts.

with only 2 cannons? the luck of the ME-262 with such tactics (flown by super experts) with 4 very heavy cannons were at best mixed

it was built for pure speed not intense maneuvering dog fighting intended for a fighter; the wings would have to be placed higher on the frame and altered in any sort of production version

Gunnarnz · Sep 25, 2012

MattII said:
Ah right. Be prepared for major neck strain during manoeuvres then.

Could you explain what you're thinking, please? Pilots of F-16's have reclined seats (and Su-27 variants as well) IIRC, and this is the first I've heard that they're particularly bad for neck strain.

MattII · Sep 25, 2012

Try lying in bed and reading off a laptop on your stomach. Right, now try doing it while pulling manoeuvres. There's a difference between 'reclined' and 'lying down', or at least I'd have thought so. Visibility would be pretty poor as well.

Just Leo · Sep 25, 2012

The fighter drawing has a 3-bladed propeller which has a diameter of 6.5 feet. This would not propel anything off the ground, let alone 550 mph. The drawing shows the 2 cannons just inboard of the prop arc and would require synchronization. The drawing doesn't show the engine air intake present in the racer picture. I'm not sure but there are 2 holes in the wing that could be oil coolers and the tail empennages have evidence of inadequate and easily damaged coolant radiators of a type copied by nobody. The pilot position would be awkward without the side-stick controller and the general configuration allows no visibility to the rear, even if the canopy allowed it. Not of the same league as the Caudron racer/fighter which Polish pilots had to fly. At least the Caudron flew.

AdA · Sep 25, 2012

Just Leo said:
The fighter drawing has a 3-bladed propeller which has a diameter of 6.5 feet. This would not propel anything off the ground, let alone 550 mph. The drawing shows the 2 cannons just inboard of the prop arc and would require synchronization. The drawing doesn't show the engine air intake present in the racer picture. I'm not sure but there are 2 holes in the wing that could be oil coolers and the tail empennages have evidence of inadequate and easily damaged coolant radiators of a type copied by nobody. The pilot position would be awkward without the side-stick controller and the general configuration allows no visibility to the rear, even if the canopy allowed it. Not of the same league as the Caudron racer/fighter which Polish pilots had to fly. At least the Caudron flew.

I'll pass that along to the guy who made the drawing, if I ever find out who he is. The much bigger Heinkel He119 was a similar concept for a high speed bomber, and used a undernose retractable radiator that spoiled the lines when opened. A pratical version of the Bugatti ideas would have gone through the process of "uglyfication" many concepts follow. Of course a He119 WI would attract a lot more following, being a LW machine, et al...
A more practical P110 might look like a fighter version of the He119, and loose the graceful lines of the racer. It would still be the coolest fighter in the world in its time, for sure...