WI: No Richard Nixon

[Killer300]

How? I don't know, a pen drops 30 seconds before he's born so he isn't born.

Point is, no Richard Nixon, at all. What are the full impacts of this? I'm guessing this butterflies Watergate, what else does it butterfly though? How does it impact Vietnam? And who is likely to replace him?

Would really like your thoughts on this.

[Paul V McNutt]

First thought is that John F Kennedy gets an opponent that does not campaign in all 50 states.

[Killer300]

Originally Posted by Paul V McNutt

First thought is that John F Kennedy gets an opponent that does not campaign in all 50 states.

Perhaps no Southern strategy, since I think Nixon was quite integral to that.

[Cathcon1]

Butterflies are going to be extending back all the way to 1946, not just 1960 or 1968. Who runs against Voorhis? Who's the nominee for Senate in 1950? Who's Eisenhower's running mate and what role do they play?

[Killer300]

Someone who knows more about internal GOP politics please?

[Apollo 20]

Let's not forget the Alger Hiss case and the contribution it made toward fear of Communism.

This is also going to have a huge effect on politics in the state of California and may well mean that Earl Warren is not picked as Chief Justice by Eisenhower, as part of the reason for his nomination was to get him out of Nixon's hair back home (Nixon and Warren were not exactly allies). A Warren-less Supreme Court might be quite different.

[Michel Van]

As POD Nixon died from pneumonia as young child together with his brother Arthur in 1925.

on McCarthy era
the Committee will have another anticommunist guy.
but will that guy have Nixon quirkiness ?
My guess journalist Edward R. Murrow will end that Guy and McCarthy careers

On Eisenhower Vice President, I have no data on candidates.

[vultan]

Originally Posted by Michel Van

On Eisenhower Vice President, I have no data on candidates.

I believe William F. Knowland was considered to replace Nixon on the ticket had the Checkers speech not gone over as well...

[M. Adolphe Thiers]

Nixon was crucial in making the GOP a conservative party. He was probably as conservative as could be elected in 1968, being the middle ground between the establishment Rockefeller Republicans and the Goldwater/Reaganites.

After Nixon, the Rockefeller types slowly died out, and now you have the current GOP umbrella with the "new" establishment who are Nixonite (obviously nobody dares to use that term anymore), the old southern democrats who are socially conservative, and the small government types like Goldwater and Reagan.

I have no idea on replacements, I think McCarthyism won't change much. As for the Southern Strategy, the Solid South first fractured in 1964 with Goldwater, and plenty of Republican strategists took notice, Kevin Phillips just popularized it.

Vietnam will end sooner if any Democratic nominee wins, unless the Nixon replacement can manage to pursue the same "Peace with Honor" message and pull off a squeaker. The outcome probably won't be any better, but this could have important ramifications in future conflicts since Abrams may not get to test out his counterinsurgency doctrine which Petraeus revived in the Iraq War.

[The Red]

Originally Posted by Killer300

How? I don't know, a pen drops 30 seconds before he's born so he isn't born.

It would have to be before he's conceived for that to work though.

[Killer300]

Originally Posted by The Red

It would have to be before he's conceived for that to work though.

Considering how powerful many here think butterflies are, you'd be surprised.

[33k7]

Alfred E. Driscoll VP for Dwight D. Eisenhower for the rest of his terms after VP Robert Taft dies




AED vs JFK

[Republican Jim]

Originally Posted by 33k7

Alfred E. Driscoll VP for Dwight D. Eisenhower for the rest of his terms after VP Robert Taft dies




AED vs JFK

So you're saying Ike would've made Robert Taft the VP. If so, I disagree. Eisenhower was a moderate and was the Moderates answer to Taft and MacArthur. I don't think Ike would alienate the Moderate wing by picking somebody he was out to stop.

[Killer300]

Originally Posted by Republican Jim

So you're saying Ike would've made Robert Taft the VP. If so, I disagree. Eisenhower was a moderate and was the Moderates answer to Taft and MacArthur. I don't think Ike would alienate the Moderate wing by picking somebody he was out to stop.

Well, then who?

[Republican Jim]

I would say Minnesota Governor Harold Stassen or someone like him.

[Killer300]

Does this perhaps butterfly away the Southern Strategy altogether?

Yes, there were others behind it, but Nixon, I think, was the first to use it a lot in a Presidential campaign.

[33k7]

Originally Posted by Republican Jim

So you're saying Ike would've made Robert Taft the VP. If so, I disagree. Eisenhower was a moderate and was the Moderates answer to Taft and MacArthur. I don't think Ike would alienate the Moderate wing by picking somebody he was out to stop.

it would have been good enough for Ike to not have to worry about the election of 1952 at all and macking the former governor new jersey Alfred E. Driscoll his vp the rest of his 1st term


then macking former governor Harold Stassen his runing in 1956 jast as United States Foreign Operations Administration was abolished by Executive Order 10610 on May 9, 1955

Alfred E. Driscoll can then run for governor of new jersey again as the former vice president and having a good chance of winning against Robert B. Meyner

[Killer300]

Maybe this call could cause a Republican Party that returns to some of its progressive elements, or at least classical liberal roots, while the Democrats will become a Populist Party?

Would certainly balance American politics better than just left versus right, which just isn't sustainable.

[Republican Jim]

Originally Posted by Killer300

Maybe this call could cause a Republican Party that returns to some of its progressive elements, or at least classical liberal roots, while the Democrats will become a Populist Party?

Would certainly balance American politics better than just left versus right, which just isn't sustainable.

I can see things progressing this way or the way did in OTL, it all depends on how the 1960 election goes. That election starts the GOP shift in OTL. If Stassen wins in 1960 then we keep Ike's Republicanism for at least four years - If Kennedy is still a factor and wins - we still get Goldwater in '64, thus the shift right.

[Killer300]

Originally Posted by Republican Jim

I can see things progressing this way or the way did in OTL, it all depends on how the 1960 election goes. That election starts the GOP shift in OTL. If Stassen wins in 1960 then we keep Ike's Republicanism for at least four years - If Kennedy is still a factor and wins - we still get Goldwater in '64, thus the shift right.

With the last, wouldn't Goldwater's loss interrupt this process? Without Nixon, they have no way except Reagan(who may be in the Goldwater camp) else to nominate.