Inland colonies?

[Shtudmuffin]

In times of rapid colonial acquisitions by multiple countries, would it be theoretically possible for a nation to gain colonial territory with absolutely no access to the ocean whatsoever? Perhaps with access to a large river, but no direct sea access?

[mowque]

You have to a little coast, I mean how else do you get there? And usually, you just take control over the edge, even if you don't do much with it. Witness Kenya and such.

[jkarr]

there is, especially if they lost a war, but theyd also eventually lose that colonoy in short time, especially in the colonisation ever...without sea accsess it wouldnt survive/stay under countrol for long

[oshron]

well French Sudan was landlocked

[Dom Jao II]

Originally Posted by oshron

well French Sudan was landlocked

Yes, but landlocked by France's other colonies.

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Lets suppose you have otls ontario belonging to country A, while the st laurence river, basically otls quebec belongs to country B. How does A get troops, money, material in or out if theyre at war with B? They dont.

So, no. Such colonies are essentially impossible.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by Dathi THorfinnsson

Lets suppose you have otls ontario belonging to country A, while the st laurence river, basically otls quebec belongs to country B. How does A get troops, money, material in or out if theyre at war with B? They dont.

So, no. Such colonies are essentially impossible.

Hudson's Bay!

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Hudson's Bay!

Good thing you had a smiley there!

[Shtudmuffin]

Originally Posted by Dathi THorfinnsson

Lets suppose you have otls ontario belonging to country A, while the st laurence river, basically otls quebec belongs to country B. How does A get troops, money, material in or out if theyre at war with B? They dont.

So, no. Such colonies are essentially impossible.

What if A had an alliance with B, though? Or was guaranteed neutrality by all nations (similar to Belgium IOTL)?

[Axeman]

The inverse would probably be easier. Have a medium sized German state have a little bit of coastline in the North / Baltic Sea then establish an overseas colony about the size of OTL Spanish colonies in Africa *minus rio de oro*. Then have that country lose a war on mainland Europe but be allied with Britain / Super Naval Hegemon X so its colonies aren't threatened. It loses access to the coast in Europe and becomes an inland country but has a colony overseas meaning it is dependent on extra-territorial concessions and other countries.

[Muwatalli']

Well, I heared that most of Belgium's contact with her colony was by air, and not by sea. The thing is you probably need the sea to start the colony.

[Arachnid]

Originally Posted by Muwatalli'

Well, I heared that most of Belgium's contact with her colony was by air, and not by sea. The thing is you probably need the sea to start the colony.

Belgium held the Congo for a considerable period before the invention of air travel and you definitely need the sea access to establish a colony.

[Falecius]

At some point, France was negotiating about somehow keeping Algerian Sahara while giving independence to the populated north.
But I guess it was before giving indipendence to Mauritania and French Sudan as well.
Don't know about the detail, but I can imagine a situation where a significant chunk of the Sahara remains French (they wanted it basically as a nuclear test facility IIRC).

Also, maybe would it be possible for Britain to sort of keep Rhodesia?

[The Ubbergeek]

Actually partially possible - you guys forget rivers... The thing is, you'd have to control the said rivers's mouths and shores, of course, or... troubles.

[Enigmajones]

The Congo Free State comes to mind.

[Zmflavius]

Originally Posted by Enigmajones

The Congo Free State comes to mind.

I think they had a bridge to the South Atlantic.

[Enigmajones]

Originally Posted by Zmflavius

I think they had a bridge to the South Atlantic.

They did, a very, very small sliver of land, but the vast majority was inland, accessed by the Congo River.

[pa_dutch]

What about Pennsylvania? For a short period of time, William Penn's colony had no sea access, and even after it acquired the land that eventually became Delaware, its main port was the city of Philadelphia, which is very much inland and only connected to the sea by the Delaware River. Sure, it was surrounded by other colonies of Englishmen, but the colonies weren't really united in those early days.

[Iori]

It's not that hard to do, it's remaining so in the long term that is.

For example, let's say in an AH scenario one Jakob von Nacht is leading a group of colonists from Hannover, first they stop at the mouth of the Misssissippi, however for a variety of reasons they decide not to form their colony their, so they move-up the river and eventually found their colony around where OTL Rosedale, Miss. is, and when they do expand it's primarily North.

Over time other groups and countries start colonizing the coast, leading to Scotland eventually colonizing Louisiana and it's surroundings up to the Southern border of the colony.

Now, Scotland and Hannover get along very well and have longstanding good realtions and thus Scotland allows Hannover free, unhindered use of the Mississippi to keep in contact with its inland colony.

[BlondieBC]

Originally Posted by Iori

For example, let's say in an AH scenario one Jakob von Nacht is leading a group of colonists from Hannover, first they stop at the mouth of the Misssissippi, however for a variety of reasons they decide not to form their colony their, so they move-up the river and eventually found their colony around where OTL Rosedale, Miss. is, and when they do expand it's primarily North.

If you want a colony like this, it is even an easier POD. As they will tell you in the German Hall in New Orleans, the Germans arrived over 100 years before the Cajuns. So it would only take a small legal change by the French King to create what you want. Say the French King issues a separate charter for the Germans via a German State. In fact, I would not guarantee that this did not happen. They had a terrible time settling Louisiana due to Malaria and Yellow Fever. The French resort at times to mass sweeps of prostitutes to get settlers.

Now if I was writing a TL, I would go a John Law era POD which is later. The original German settlement worked like OTL. Law/French King think they are going to make a fortune through the colony. They see the rising population of the British Colonies as a threat. The notice lots of Germans leaving Europe for the British Colonies. They seek an ally with some German state to help find enough settlers to fill the land. The Germans have the area around Baton Rouge and Angola (Both sides of river) and they are created as a separate allied colony that has Baton Rouge as its capital and the Yazoo river basin. The French colony is in New Orleans and travels up the Red River to Arkansas.

If you can find a German speaking state that would ally with France, the rest is easy an plausible with some pretty small POD. You get the Mississippi river basin split up like the Congo was. It is unstable, so if France loses a war like OTL to the UK or France and the German state fall out of favor, the state collapses. Now given enough time you could get it even to be self sustaining and last until modern times. You would have to assume the Germans get enough colonist there to resist the USA or to butterfly away the ARW. I guess if one assumes this state is much more attractive to Germans than the 13 Colonies/USA, then maybe it can survive.

You could do the same thing in the Hudson river valley if the Dutch view Germans living up river as helping making their colony safer. Think everything above the Bronx is part of a colony of a German state. We often see colonies where the settlers are from a different state. The thread author is asking for more a legal form of a separate legal entity that could evolve into a state. With the early colonies of many powers driven by the desire for profits for the Monarch, it just takes a Monarch seeing larger profits if the colony is "technically" a separate legal entity to get what you want. Now over time, we know the rise of Nationalism means an Italian speaking area in South American or a German speaking area in the Mississippi River basin will often lead to a separate nation, but the Kings may lack such foresight.