Union of hispanic colonies?

LNSS

LNSS

How likely was it that the spanish colonies in the Americas obtained their independence as a huge hispanic federation of sorts? How could it have been possible - and in any case, how would such an hypthethical nation interact with the USA and Europe the following centuries?

Simon Bolivar during his life and struggle repeateadly wrote about the necessity for the union of the countries of the Americas (and maybe history would prove him right, fragmented Latin America is weak) - even after the independence wars, there existed several 'union countries', such as the Mexican Empire, the UPCA, Gran Colombia, Peru-Bolivia, etc.

If a state from the Andes to California is such an impossibility (though I believe with a huge pacific navy it could survive), how about splitting it in two - one from California to Venezuela, and the other from Ecuador to the southern tip of South America (if the Incas did it centuries earlier...)

Maybe it could dispute the name of 'United States of America' to the actual USA, or choose something like 'United States of the Spanish Americas'.
 
Lusitania

Lusitania

Donor
For there to be a realistic chance of union of Hispanic nations to form you would need to have new Spain experience a similar event as happened in the Portuguese colonies in the Americas.

It was during the napoleonic wars that the Portuguese crown fled French army and fled to rio de janeiro. This provided the portuguese people of the various colonies in south America with an experience of unified presence. If the Portuguese royal family and court had not escaped then brazil would of more than likely gone the way of the Spanish colonies.
 

HistorianofAlt

There are several problems with something like this happening and it has to do with the nature of the Spanish colonies. Unlike English colonies, the Spanish colonies were resource extractors. Their trade was set up from colony to mother country. On the other hand, the 13 colonies had a lot of trade between each colony. The 13 colonies were also a lot more connected than the Spanish colonies. Thus, they could grasp the nebulous idea that they were all a part of a larger nation. You didn't have that with the Viceroys of New Spain, New Granada, and Peru.
 
iori

iori

The geography, technology, politics and demographics leads to it simply being nearly impossible, and pretty much ASB of it surviving beyond 20 years.

You could get four large Federations (as shown in the map below), but no fewer than that.

H-A Feds..png
 

Admiral Brown

Lusitania said:
For there to be a realistic chance of union of Hispanic nations to form you would need to have new Spain experience a similar event as happened in the Portuguese colonies in the Americas.

It was during the napoleonic wars that the Portuguese crown fled French army and fled to rio de janeiro. This provided the portuguese people of the various colonies in south America with an experience of unified presence. If the Portuguese royal family and court had not escaped then brazil would of more than likely gone the way of the Spanish colonies.
Click to expand...

I am afraid that won't be enough. Geography makes such an union extremely unlikel. Both the american and the portuguese colonies where mostly coastal colonies, conected by sea.

How would you conect Bueson Aires with Caracas? By sea, you'd need to sail near a potential hostile neighbour. By land, you need to travel thousands of miles through a very difficult terrain (including deserts and jungles), and cross the Andes at least twice. Travelling through the Pacific doesn't solve the problem.

Another problem would be that no former head of a colony would want to be run from another city. It was one thing to accept the King in Madrid, but nobody in Buenos aires would have like to be run from Lima, let alone Panama or Mexico city. That was a problem throught the inmediate years after independence, but eventualy some cities managed to control their region and become heads of their country. But it would be impossible to control Caracas from Buenos Aires by means of arms.

So no, larger countries are possible, maybe even some sort of loos confederation without power. But a real union of all Hispanic America that functions as a single country? I don't think it's possible
 

thekingsguard

Iori said:
The geography, technology, politics and demographics leads to it simply being nearly impossible, and pretty much ASB of it surviving beyond 20 years.

You could get four large Federations (as shown in the map below), but no fewer than that.
Click to expand...

This one seems possible - you may beable to lump Peru and Argentina here togeteher.

Maybe if the united Hispanisphere sells some of the northern chunks of Mexico to the USA, they could use the funds to better develop the remaining portions?
 

Chairwoman Roxelana

thekingsguard said:
This one seems possible - you may beable to lump Peru and Argentina here togeteher.

Maybe if the united Hispanisphere sells some of the northern chunks of Mexico to the USA, they could use the funds to better develop the remaining portions?
Click to expand...

But the Gold and Silver are a better investment then selling it to the USA.


Admiral Brown said:
I am afraid that won't be enough. Geography makes such an union extremely unlikel. Both the american and the portuguese colonies where mostly coastal colonies, conected by sea.

How would you conect Bueson Aires with Caracas? By sea, you'd need to sail near a potential hostile neighbour. By land, you need to travel thousands of miles through a very difficult terrain (including deserts and jungles), and cross the Andes at least twice. Travelling through the Pacific doesn't solve the problem.

Another problem would be that no former head of a colony would want to be run from another city. It was one thing to accept the King in Madrid, but nobody in Buenos aires would have like to be run from Lima, let alone Panama or Mexico city. That was a problem throught the inmediate years after independence, but eventualy some cities managed to control their region and become heads of their country. But it would be impossible to control Caracas from Buenos Aires by means of arms.

So no, larger countries are possible, maybe even some sort of loos confederation without power. But a real union of all Hispanic America that functions as a single country? I don't think it's possible
Click to expand...

Maybe building Bolivar D.C. in Columbia or Ecuador would help?
 
iori

iori

thekingsguard said:
Gold and Silver that nobody knew about in OTL until 1848 ;)
Click to expand...

I think by its nature a Mexico that could survive including all its original continental territory, would have to be more stable and prospering more, thus allowing for people to focus more on exploring the area and thus very likely finding the deposits earlier.

That and given that OTL Northern Mexico, which was more populated, also had a good deal of resources, they'd probably rightly figure that maybe other parts of the North would also have large deposits.
 

Dathi THorfinnsson

thekingsguard said:
This one seems possible - you may beable to lump Peru and Argentina here togeteher.
Click to expand...
No. THe Andes (and the Straits of Magellan) are between Argentina and Chile.

Could you get a coastal kingdom that ran from Ecuador to Chile? Maybe, but that's VERY strung out, and would have horrible communication lags.

Could Gran Columbia survive? Probably, although it's not entirely easy.

Could a 'Mexico' from the Isthmus of Panama to the Canadian border exist? certainly. (Especially if the "Canada" goes as far south as Oregon.

Can you get all of it in one chunk? Only if it is part of the Spanish Empire. Note that the Spanish ran the area in ?4? Viceroyalties, so even they didn't try to keep it all together.

Note, however, that a *Spanish Empire might possibly not include Castille... In theory.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Top