WI: Patton doesn't get injured in car accident?

[Rainbow Sparkle]

Lets suppose, by whatever means is really necessary, that Patton wasn't injured in the car accident that ended up leading to is death. What effect could Patton have had on the events following 1945, particularly the Cold War and the Korean War?

[ObssesedNuker]

He had already decided to retire from the Army anyways when he died. So his survival probably won't do anything military-wise.

Now he could have an influence in politics.

[Rainbow Sparkle]

Originally Posted by ObssesedNuker

He had already decided to retire from the Army anyways when he died. So his survival probably won't do anything military-wise.

Now he could have an influence in politics.

President Patton...it both has a nice ring to it, and bodes for interesting times.

[Georgepatton]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Sparkle

President Patton...it both has a nice ring to it, and bodes for interesting times.

You're going to have to find someone really, really good to help him keep his mouth shut. Really good.

[Bob in Pittsburgh]

Ultimately I think he would have become a sad figure. The Army Chief of Staff progression of Eisenhower and then Bradley left him no place in the Army. Politically he would not have stood a chance challenging Eisenhower. Even in 1948, and assuming Ike stays out, I don’t see him gaining much traction against Dewey. That was largely a domestic issues election.

[jmc247]

Patton couldn't be a political leader, because he couldn't lie effectively or even keep his mouth shut when he really felt a certain way which is vital for any political leader to be able to do.

Patton didn't at all like how the Germans in general were treated after the war by the West. His view was we kicked their asses and you guys for some reason want to keep kicking their asses after they are defeated to prove somekind of point and turn them into pacifists who hate themselves while you are playing lovey dovey with the Soviet's who are going to be trying to drive us out of Europe and take over as soon as we start pulling out? Are you nuts?

Patton could see that if they didn't attack in 1945 the Soviet's and drive them way back that we would need a strong non-pacifist Germany as future Allies against the USSR when the Soviet's started trying to use force to take over Europe.

The U.S. in general didn't come around to Patton's way of thinking about the issue until the Berlin Crisis and for some it took until Korea for that to happen.

Patton was in no way politician material, but he in my view had a far better reading of human history and human military history then the other important American generals in the war and certainly political leaders in Washington.

[Rainbow Sparkle]

Originally Posted by jmc247

Patton couldn't be a political leader, because he couldn't lie effectively or even keep his mouth shut when he really felt a certain way which is vital for any political leader to be able to do.

Patton didn't at all like how the Germans in general were treated after the war by the West. His view was we kicked their asses and you guys for some reason want to keep kicking their asses after they are defeated to prove somekind of point and turn them into pacifists who hate themselves them while you are playing lovey dovey with the Soviet's who are going to be trying to drive us out of Europe and take over as soon as we start pulling out? Are you nuts?

Patton could see that if they didn't attack in 1945 the Soviet's and drive them way back that we would need a strong non-pacifist Germany as future Allies against the USSR when the Soviet's started trying to use force to take over Europe.

The U.S. in general didn't come around to Patton's way of thinking about the issue until the Berlin Crisis and for some it took until Korea for that to happen.

Patton was in no way politician material, but he in my view had a far better reading of human history and human military history then the other important American generals in the war and certainly political leaders in Washington.

Now that's given me a weird thought. It gave me the vision of Patton returning to Germany and try to stop the pacification of Germany. Whether or not he would succeed...is up in the air really.

[rudebadger]

I think that Patton would have resigned after the war to become someone like Gen. Billy Mitchell was after WWI - a respected soldier pushing for innovation and criticizing policies that he believed were ineffective or just wrong. Everyone has said that he couldn't keep his mouth shut, so this way he doesn't have to.

Maybe he would be fighting for German re-armament to happen sooner than it did. He'd probably wade into the fight between Lemay's new atomic Air Force and the more conventional military forces that would actually be used during the Cold War.

[jmc247]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Sparkle

Now that's given me a weird thought. It gave me the vision of Patton returning to Germany and try to stop the pacification of Germany. Whether or not he would succeed...is up in the air really.

That would be funny, but he wouldn't get very far. The notion of collective guilt and collective punishment for Germans was firmly entrenched in Washington until Stalin bared his teeth against them.

Patton was the most liked WAllied general among the German population and their army in 1944-1945 because he had a similar view to the Soviet's that they did and made clear he blamed the Nazi leadership for the crimes that went on not the German people. In fact Rommel told his son in 1944 before he was suicided to surrender to Patton's forces and to tell Patton that Marshal Rommel asked to allow his son to serve under him.

That is part of how the post war legend got developed that the German military during the war viewed him as the Allies best general, much of it is that they liked him the best so they talked about him differently (and more) then other WAllied generals. A similar issue for Rommel and the U.S. and British Empire, it wasn't so much they viewed him as the best German general its that the WAllies liked him the best so they talked about him the most.

[terrellk]

There's one possibility that I've always kind of wondered about, actually. In 1956, conservative elements within both the Republican and Democratic parties sought to run a candidate to the right of Eisenhower. They couldn't convince anyone (they were pretty much hoping for Goldwater and a southern governor whose name I have currently forgotten) to run for them, so they settled on T. Coleman Andrews who was essentially a protest candidate that couldn't even mount an effective protest. Now, imagine that old George gets fed up with what he sees as Ike's appeasement of the Soviet Union (because he doesn't nuke them), and is convinced to run as a third party candidate in 1956.

While Patton's run wouldn't win him the White House, it could just make Ike's victory much more narrow than it was or even put Stevenson in the White House that year. Interesting times right there.

[Urban fox]

Originally Posted by Georgepatton

You're going to have to find someone really, really good to help him keep his mouth shut. Really good.

He, has even less chance of gaining the republican nomination than MacArthur.

While the US voters have made questionable choices in the past, I doubt they'd elect a man who genuinely thinks he's the reincarnation of one of Caesar's legionnaires, and whose platform includes starting WW3.

[pieman97405]

If he did retire, would there be any chance of him coming back to fight in Korea, or would the army say no?

[superkuf]

Patton would be to old and to eurocentric for Korea, which anyway is very bad tank country.

Politics and Patton would not mix. The question is if Patton would realize that or make some failed political attempts?

The biggest impact would be
a) Pattons memoirs, which were to be brutal and
b) his general comments on political events

Before Prague/Berlin 1948 the western (at least the US) were fairly friendly towards the Soviets. Patton could change that by his memoirs, other writings, speeches etc.

The view of WW2 would definetly be affected by a well written memoir/other books by Patton.

[BlairWitch749]

first and foremost he would write his memoirs which naturally would be self serving revisionist crap; however, due to his name recognition and talent for self promotion, they would be world wide international best sellers and he would be in heavy demand for lecture and speaking circuits

politics for him other than perhaps an endorsement of an old war comrade like Ike is ASB x10 for two reasons

1. family conflict of interest... the Pattons; for generations were democrats including his grandfather who fought for the south in the civil war; whilst Bea Patton (Mrs. Patton) who had all the money in the relationship was descended from hard core republicans; Bea would not let Patton run as anything other than a Republican which George wouldn't like and Bea ran the show as far as their relationship was concerns

2. baggage that would make nixon agnew and clinton blush.... forget the more common stuff about slapping enlisted men and the botched expidition to rescue his son in law which lead to an armored company getting liquidated by panzershreks and artillery.... the affair with his niece and his alcoholism will be MUCH more fully examined; and those are things he could never survive; plus he had plenty of enemies who would delightfully spill their guts to the washington post about these matter

[Noravea]

Have Patton run in 1960 as a Republican, and watch the entertaining JFK vs. Patton debate.

If you want to see Patton call JFK a "Washington Sissy" on video, on national television, this is your chance.

[BlairWitch749]

Originally Posted by Noravea

Have Patton run in 1960 as a Republican, and watch the entertaining JFK vs. Patton debate.

If you want to see Patton call JFK a "Washington Sissy" on video, on national television, this is your chance.

Patton would be terrible on TV; forget that the alcohol made him look like shit.... he had a super high squeaky voice; if you watch a youtube video of him speaking you'll see TV was not something he should ever get involved with

[Corbell Mark IV]

Originally Posted by superkuf

Patton would be to old and to eurocentric for Korea, which anyway is very bad tank country.

Politics and Patton would not mix. The question is if Patton would realize that or make some failed political attempts?

The biggest impact would be
a) Pattons memoirs, which were to be brutal and
b) his general comments on political events

Before Prague/Berlin 1948 the western (at least the US) were fairly friendly towards the Soviets. Patton could change that by his memoirs, other writings, speeches etc.

The view of WW2 would definetly be affected by a well written memoir/other books by Patton.

I don't see the memoirs of a retired soldier really having much affect on US Soviet relations.

Now, when the relations sour in 48, this would vindicate Patton's views.

To what effect I'm not sure.

[Noravea]

Patton's best shot would be to run in 1948 I think. He's just out of the military, relations with the Soviets are souring and the Cold War just kicked off. He could run on the "I told you so" campaign against Truman.

[mattep74]

What about Truman dragging him out of retirement after sacking Mac in Korea?

[modelcitizen]

My first response was, "Cold War? What's that?" but you're all being too thoughtful.


To what degree are his "domestic" politics known? I should just click google but I have other things I feel like doing.