Wine in a CP Victory World

I don't know that anyone has the knowledge to speculate on my following question/idea because it's seemingly rather random but... I was flipping through a general guide to wine I have and keep as coffee table reading, and while the book itself focuses as most do on the great wine growing regions of the world (France, Italy, the regions of the US, etc), it does dedicate a smaller chapter to the lesser known areas including Austria. In its general blurb about Austria, it made a surprisingly assertion that had the Habsburg Monarchy not been dissolved, the standard list of wines might look radically different. It specifically was referencing Grüner Veltliner, Austria's native white, but it got me thinking about wines of the former Monarchy in general.

So my proposition is, anyone care to speculate further with me? With say a large scale defeat of France and possibly Italy, does the wine scene charge? Burgundy could be under Germany occupation or in some scenarios an independent client or incorporated into Germany. Rieslings certainly will almost entirely come from Germany. And what of the Austro-Hungarian industries? I know there was much experimentation in the later Habsburg Monarchy, so do Austrian and Hungarian wine become great staples instead of being bastardized and then only seeing rehabilitation in the aftermath of WWII and the fall of Communism?

These wines will probably more prominent.


Dalmatia - Plavac, Pošip, Vugava, Prošek, Dingač

Croatia - Moslavac, Škrlet

Slavonia - Silvanac, Traminac, Frankovka

Istria - Muškat, Trojšćina, Vrbnička Žlahtina

Hungary/Slovakia - Tokaj

Marko said:

These wines will probably more prominent.
Dalmatia - Plavac, Pošip, Vugava, Prošek, Dingač

Croatia - Moslavac, Škrlet

Slavonia - Silvanac, Traminac, Frankovka

Istria - Muškat, Trojšćina, Vrbnička Žlahtina

Hungary/Slovakia - Tokaj

Click to expand...

Interesting list, and an interesting source of discussion here with this thread. I've not personally tried any of these wines, so I can't make any judgements on what the world would lose or gain from a vinological perspective if this were to have happened.

I can't give any input in this particular case other than to say you're probably right. Wine has a very interesting history, especially given that it's birthplace region has been largely Islamic for almost 1500 years.

Dingač easily stands up to a French Bordeaux, and Pošip is its white counterpart. However, these wines are grown on rather small and difficult surfaces. - What we most probably would see are Austrian and Hungarian mass wines grown on vast even surfaces.

I think we would see South African wine in high demand in Britain.

rast said:

Dingač easily stands up to a French Bordeaux, and Pošip is its white counterpart. However, these wines are grown on rather small and difficult surfaces. - What we most probably would see are Austrian and Hungarian mass wines grown on vast even surfaces.

Click to expand...

Just because something is grown on a small area doesn't mean it would be widely known or prominent as an exlusive wine.

What an interesting question. Can't help sadly as my knowledge of wines from the A-H area is sketchy (Tokai aside oh and the Austrian antifreeze in red wine scndalof the late 80s)

If Burgundy is under german control I doubt that they would grub up all those lovely vineyards. Probably a case that most of the wine will go to Germany than elsewhere.

While I doubt that it would affect other French and Italian wine production in the long term perhaps there will be a move to produce high quality wines in South Africa and restart quality wine production in Australia. But then again where are the overseas markets for this wine?

I can see the CP seizing trademarks of French wine. Or maybe something like all French wine has to be exported to the CP for reparations and the French/Italian resistance sabotage.

And it may be a bit off you focus, but isn't Champaigne occupied by Germany, so it might be come a German wine. And the wines of the Rhine valley taste quite good to me.

And economies of loser are ruined, so wine consumption might collapse in these countries.

Little bit of hidden wine history. The french wine industry was saved by California grape vines. When the french vines were being killed by a disease, the California vines were resistant. So the imported resistant vines and splinted french vines on to them. There are timelines were this did not happen and the french wine industry died.

what were the preferred wines of the none -faddy eaters and drinkers of the Nazi party, obviously the Italians will promote their wines even more should they remain part of the victorious CP ...

I suspect that there would be far more 'new world' wine drunk outside of the CP areas of control ...

I'm pretty sure there was some Party "brand" that was cheap, though I can't recall the name. They had a Party beer, IIRC. Orwell satirizes Totalitarianism's infection of vices in 1984 with his Victory Cigarettes and Victory Gin.

KeeCoyote said:

Little bit of hidden wine history. The french wine industry was saved by California grape vines. When the french vines were being killed by a disease, the California vines were resistant. So the imported resistant vines and splinted french vines on to them. There are timelines were this did not happen and the french wine industry died.

Click to expand...

Indeed: the phylloxera disaster in the late 19th century.

On the subject of the USA. I wonder how US wine development would have fared without that stupid period of prohibition.

I think that the big change would be in American imports. Prohibition was able to happen to a large extent because Irish and German Americans were sidelined in post-war politics. Without Prohibition, and with prominent wine consumption by German immigrants, I think you'd see Rhine valley wines being more popular with American consumers.
Especially if France and Italy go all right-wing autarkist after a defeat, something quite possible in my view.

jakewilson said:

I think that the big change would be in American imports. Prohibition was able to happen to a large extent because Irish and German Americans were sidelined in post-war politics. Without Prohibition, and with prominent wine consumption by German immigrants, I think you'd see Rhine valley wines being more popular with American consumers.
Especially if France and Italy go all right-wing autarkist after a defeat, something quite possible in my view.

Click to expand...

And the US wine industry would not be set back decades too

jamsodonnell said:

Indeed: the phylloxera disaster in the late 19th century.

On the subject of the USA. I wonder how US wine development would have fared without that stupid period of prohibition.

Click to expand...

The Hudson valley, hailed as Americas Rhine valley back then would have remained an important wine producing region.

Also, America's awesome and diverse native beer industry would remain place, and Peruvian pisco would have remained the liquor of choice in California. Prohibition really turned the US into such a backwater drinking-wise that we've never really recovered.

An interesting observation about the aversion of Prohibition and the the US wine industry, I hadn't thought of that!

What an interesting thread. Just goes to show how diverse and truly awesome AH.com really is.

Alcohol industry history is fascinating, all sorts of interesting things happened both comparitively recently and in the distant past