AHC: Arcologies, Arcologies Everywhere

[anw_rev]

The challenge is to push the development of world's cities upward, not outward.
So
That by the year 2000, arcologies 500 meters high that house tens of thousands of people are considered normal.
This should happen not just in first world countries, but also second or third, like Mexico, Brazil, Egypt, India, Indonesia, and China.

POD preferably post-WW2, but shortly before it can be accepted.

Thanks in advance!

[The Ubbergeek]

We are still a bit away from cyberpunk archologies I think, but closer...

[FDW]

Originally Posted by The Ubbergeek

We are still a bit away from cyberpunk archologies I think, but closer...

Yeah, I think so too. Though we probably have the technological means to build such structures…

[Herzen's love-child]

Think they will emerge in East Asia first. There are Chinese firms that are currently proposing pre-fab skyscrapers of immense size.

[XNM]

Some sort of POD that turns national dick-waving up to eleven may be needed.

Hm...maybe a Cold War in a world where aerospace technology isn't at all good enough to reach space?

[anw_rev]

Originally Posted by MKN

Some sort of POD that turns national dick-waving up to eleven may be needed.

Hm...maybe a Cold War in a world where aerospace technology isn't at all good enough to reach space?

...dick-waving? You mean like ultranationalism or fascism?

[DerGreif]

This interesting thread by Doctor What might include helpful information.

Kind regards,
G.

[zippy]

it needs a rather more wholesale adoption of Le Corbusier's 'streets in the sky ' type concept which means that there are far more developments like;s London's Barbican and that the likes of Sheffield's Park Hill flats or even the Quarry Hill flats in Leeds (now home to the 'Ministry of Truth' DoH building ) and similar developments don;t become an embarrassing blind alley reduced to slums ...

also some of the technical failings of high rise residential accommodation of the 'normal' tower block style needs to be avoided , such as 'concrete cancer' the difficulties with thermal issues where floor slabs run out to the exposed edges meaning the structure acts as a cold sink drawing heat from the flats into the structure ...

[Makemakean]

A mutation in the human DNA around the Toba catastrophe ensures that the median penile length of all men thereafter is about 2 inches when fully erect.

We also have much bigger armies, much grander and luxurious cars and not even the most left-wing metropolitan elitist Democrat would ever think about questioning the Second Amendment.

Sorry, that should be the First Amendment. The right to bear arms is that important in this timeline that it was included before the right to free speech.

[Hipsterredneck556]

Originally Posted by Makemakean

not even the most left-wing metropolitan elitist Democrat would ever think about questioning the Second Amendment.

Sorry, that should be the First Amendment. The right to bear arms is that important in this timeline that it was included before the right to free speech.

Really? We're going there?

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by Makemakean

A mutation in the human DNA around the Toba catastrophe ensures that the median penile length of all men thereafter is about 2 inches when fully erect.

We also have much bigger armies, much grander and luxurious cars and not even the most left-wing metropolitan elitist Democrat would ever think about questioning the Second Amendment.

Sorry, that should be the First Amendment. The right to bear arms is that important in this timeline that it was included before the right to free speech.

Because no women have ever liked the idea of building grand monuments in history, only men who need to compensate. And if everyone were so small wouldn't there be no need to compensate because that was the new average?

[ModernKiwi]

If you had the population panics of the late 1960's taken more seriously perhaps?

[Makemakean]

Originally Posted by Hipsterredneck556

Really? We're going there?

Yes, I seriously think that to get to bottom of this issue we need to make a serious statistical study regarding support for gun control and penile length.

Originally Posted by Beedok

Because no women have ever liked the idea of building grand monuments in history, only men who need to compensate.

Of course they have, just look at Catharine the Great. But you see, if male architects started to design much taller buildings, and we assume no reason to believe that women would start building smaller monuments as some sort of strange reaction, you'll have on average much taller, grander buildings.

See, you can mathematically prove that my statement implied no closet misogyny.

Originally Posted by Beedok

And if everyone were so small wouldn't there be no need to compensate because that was the new average?

Note to self: never try joking about alternate history scenarios unless you've made a sincere effort to check that your joke-scenario is actually one that would happen. Especially when the subject being clichées regarding popular conceptions of Freudian psychoanalysis...

[anw_rev]

Originally Posted by Makemakean

Yes, I seriously think that to get to bottom of this issue we need to make a serious statistical study regarding support for gun control and penile length.



Of course they have, just look at Catharine the Great. But you see, if male architects started to design much taller buildings, and we assume no reason to believe that women would start building smaller monuments as some sort of strange reaction, you'll have on average much taller, grander buildings.

See, you can mathematically prove that my statement implied no closet misogyny.



Note to self: never try joking about alternate history scenarios unless you've made a sincere effort to check that your joke-scenario is actually one that would happen. Especially when the subject being clichées regarding popular conceptions of Freudian psychoanalysis...

So we need an ATL filled with male-domination culture?
Kuche-und-Kirche view of women?
*facepalm*

[Flocculencio]

Originally Posted by zippy

it needs a rather more wholesale adoption of Le Corbusier's 'streets in the sky ' type concept which means that there are far more developments like;s London's Barbican and that the likes of Sheffield's Park Hill flats or even the Quarry Hill flats in Leeds (now home to the 'Ministry of Truth' DoH building ) and similar developments don;t become an embarrassing blind alley reduced to slums ...

also some of the technical failings of high rise residential accommodation of the 'normal' tower block style needs to be avoided , such as 'concrete cancer' the difficulties with thermal issues where floor slabs run out to the exposed edges meaning the structure acts as a cold sink drawing heat from the flats into the structure ...

The thing is, prefab concrete structures work a lot better in the tropics than temperate regions- Singapores massive concrete housing estates from the 60s nd 70s are far more comfortable and livable than British council flats of the same era because the materials are more suited to the climate.

With an arcology, however, the tropic would pose a new problem- cooling rather than heating

[Coalition]

The key with arcologies, at least initially, would be to build them as a series of linked tall buildings. A factory might want to have its workers nearby, so it purchases an apartment complex near the factory, for the workers to live there. Unfortunately, at shift change, the traffic jams are incredible.

So the 1960s engineers are handed this problem, and told to 'find a solution'. Their idea is a series of elevated walkways over the road (sufficiently high enough to clear all possible traffic), so the workers can walk to/from work, without clogging up traffic.

The factory also has the problem of getting rid of waste heat, and the apartments get cold in the winter. So a thermal vent is set up to go to the apartment complex heat intake. Instead of having to warm up cold air in the winter, it only has to disperse ~800 F air into the apartments. Excess heat can be simply vented.

A store is built nearby, to take advantage of the workers and their paychecks. Since the workers don't have cars, the massive parking lot is placed on the far side of the building, so the workers don't have as far to walk. Shipment of materials is handled by being near the rail line that also takes care of the factory. Coordination is required by the rail line, so the two have to work together.

Since the employees are walking on a third story walkway, the mall goes with a 4-5 story design, to make shopping easier, as people only have to go up or down floors, rather than walking farther. The more compact store frees up parking room on the ground, so it can handle more customers. Studies to increase customer flow are performed due to the fewer entrance room available, with the factory aiding.

This unified structure would have a lower environmental footprint since the waste of one building is used to help another. The convenience of not needing a car due to the short walks saves money that the employees can choose where to spend.

Lower ground space needed also means more land can be made available for parks. An electric train service is set up to move people from the apartment complex to the park for visits. Electricity is chosen over other power sources since there are fewer side emissions (compared to diesel exhaust).

Due to lack of car access, buildings are designed for people to be able to walk around easily, to and from. When a vehicle is needed, the workers would be able to travel to a dedicated rental facility, rather than trying to keep their car in some garage. Studies for additional floors are made with the understanding that material science advancements would be needed to allow for economic taller buildings.

Spreading out is not that attractive an option, as people are driving less, and walking more. A building several miles away from its intended customers simply goes bankrupt, unless it markets to the few people with enough spare cash to afford a car.

Additional work is commissioned to study the need to move people around quickly (due to potential for fire), along with air circulation (moving O2 in, and CO2 out). The advantage of being able to store more people in the same amount of ground space is noticed by several other cities that are having trouble with police response times due to longer distances. Several protest groups complain that the monitoring systems needed for the larger structures will turn the new cities into Police States that monitor their citizens' every move. Realists point out that it would need a computer with the computational capacity of over one hundred times the system speed of the most advanced supercomputer available to even try to keep track of all that data.

[anw_rev]

The factory's heat can simply be vented to the apartments

Any solution for same system in tropical climate?
I agree, the problem there is more of cooling

[Richter10]

Originally Posted by Coalition

The key with arcologies, at least initially, would be to build them as a series of linked tall buildings. A factory might want to have its workers nearby, so it purchases an apartment complex near the factory, for the workers to live there. Unfortunately, at shift change, the traffic jams are incredible.

(...)

Additional work is commissioned to study the need to move people around quickly (due to potential for fire), along with air circulation (moving O2 in, and CO2 out). The advantage of being able to store more people in the same amount of ground space is noticed by several other cities that are having trouble with police response times due to longer distances. Several protest groups complain that the monitoring systems needed for the larger structures will turn the new cities into Police States that monitor their citizens' every move. Realists point out that it would need a computer with the computational capacity of over one hundred times the system speed of the most advanced supercomputer available to even try to keep track of all that data.

Sounds a really reasonable path! Maybe we could not have "Standard Arcologies", but maybe a serie of "Mini-Arcologies" if such integration process started at the 60's.

Maybe the rising enviromentalism would help to push such "Mini-Arcologies" (less used energy, less comsuption, less space occuped, etc.)?

[Alex1guy]

Originally Posted by Makemakean

A mutation in the human DNA around the Toba catastrophe ensures that the median penile length of all men thereafter is about 2 inches when fully erect.

We also have much bigger armies, much grander and luxurious cars and not even the most left-wing metropolitan elitist Democrat would ever think about questioning the Second Amendment.

Sorry, that should be the First Amendment. The right to bear arms is that important in this timeline that it was included before the right to free speech.

That's probably the funniest thing I've read in a while

[Corbell Mark IV]

Originally Posted by anw_rev

The challenge is to push the development of world's cities upward, not outward.
So
That by the year 2000, arcologies 500 meters high that house tens of thousands of people are considered normal.
This should happen not just in first world countries, but also second or third, like Mexico, Brazil, Egypt, India, Indonesia, and China.

POD preferably post-WW2, but shortly before it can be accepted.

Thanks in advance!

The central planning of it all makes it seem like a natural fit for Communism...

If you could have the Soviets get attached to the idea for ideological reasons AND MANAGE TO MAKE IT WORK, ie be a cost effective method of housing and urban planning...

Then they could try spreading the idea as a form of ideological proof of concept (for communism) or some line of propaganda.