Challenge: Lëtzebuerger Loftwaff (Luxembourg Air Force)

Petike

Petike

As with my older thread concerning a greater Icelandic standing military, I want to talk about the possibilities of a far earlier air force tradition in the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg's military history. A tradition that leads to the existence of a proper (if small) permanent air force for the country, instead of the OTL babysitting of NATO AEW planes. A post-WWII POD is sufficient enough, but you can go as far as WWI and the interwar years to establish the tradition.

Mostly, I don't want to talk purely about plausibility issues and political ramifications (WWII and the Nazis grinning at Luxembourg, etc.), but I also want to explore which aircraft models would suit such an air force over the course of several decades. Some of the conditions of this challenge:
1.) In addition to trainers, transports and helicopters, these aircraft should always include at least one squadron of lighter, inexpensive fighters.
2.) The aircraft purchased should make tactical, economic and diplomatic/political sence. No stealth fighters or other overblown crap, but also no "lulz, they'll only have Cessnas and paper airplanes" posts.
3.) In addition to the international airport in Luxembourg, which will also house a smaller airbase, there will be a single, specialized, main airbase elsewhere in the country. (Preferrably in one of the more lowland regions.)

To clear things up a bit, I'll give you some minor leeway when it comes to the butterfly effect: You do not need to make up completely new plane models and their ATL production histories. We'll assume Luxembourg's ripples are too small to affect the OTL aviation industry in any meaningful way. So, even if you'll choose an interwar POD, European countries are still going to be flying Typhoons in the 90s and present, as in OTL.

So, what machines shall carry this proud roundel ? ;)

Vzdušné sily Luxemburského veľkovojvodstva - emblém.png
 

Gunnarnz

Not trying to cause trouble, but I can't quite reconcile your first two requirements. A squadron of fighters is a very expensive thing to have available if there's no clear use for it, and I can't think of any situations in which Luxembourg would need them that do not also involve much greater commitments by their neighbours (rendering them more or less irrelevant). Their entire army is about the size of a battalion, so there's also a scale argument to consider - the airforce would end up being about the same size just to support that single squadron.
Are you absolutely sure that they must maintain an air combat force, or would you accept armed jet trainers or civilian aircraft instead?
 
Petike

Petike

Gunnarnz said:
Not trying to cause trouble, but I can't quite reconcile your first two requirements. A squadron of fighters is a very expensive thing to have available if there's no clear use for it, and I can't think of any situations in which Luxembourg would need them that do not also involve much greater commitments by their neighbours (rendering them more or less irrelevant). Their entire army is about the size of a battalion, so there's also a scale argument to consider - the airforce would end up being about the same size just to support that single squadron.
Are you absolutely sure that they must maintain an air combat force, or would you accept armed jet trainers or civilian aircraft instead?
Click to expand...

Armed jet trainers or older jet fighters are OK. I didn't say anything about F-16s or Typhoons or Harriers. I meant stuff like Sabres or Dassault-built jets in the 50s, later maybe F-5 Tigers or BAe Hawks or the like (even something as cute and small as Cessna Dragonflies would be A-OK). I know all too well that Luxembourgers have zero need for supersonic jets (hell, by the time they'd take off properly, they'd accidentally fly across the border :D). Also, they don't exactly need 50 fighters - a maximum of 5-10 would be fully sufficient for local air superiority.

I wouldn't mind a fighterless air force, but having some combat-capable aicraft in it is part of the whole challenge, even if it sounds - I'll admit - a bit wacky. ;) Most of the close air support for armoured units could be handled by smaller helicopter gunships.
 

Just Leo

Petike said:
:D

Yes, but what is it actually ? Is it fictional ? Because I said "no fictional planes".
Click to expand...

It's only fictional in the sense that it is a composite homebuilt jet-powered aircraft combining the features and qualities of three aircraft of the type plus the FSI intake installed on JSF, but following the pattern of the test item installed on a special F-16, empennages of XF-23, and a couple Swedish-modified Williams executive jet engines. It was designed in the JustAir design studio by Just Leo. Sorry, I no longer draw aircraft which exist, only aircraft which could exist or should have existed, unless I just wonder what it would look like. I actually designed the aircraft for the Monaco Air Force.

If Luxembourg needs real fighters, Hawks will do well, because they can sell joy-rides to back-seaters, as done in Russia.
 
Petike

Petike

Just Leo said:
If Luxembourg needs real fighters, Hawks will do well, because they can sell joy-rides to back-seaters, as done in Russia.
Click to expand...

Fair enough.

As far as historical aircraft go:

Do you think Bf-109s, Hurricanes, Sabres and Mysteres would be OK in a 1940s-1960s time frame ?
 

Just Leo

Political affiliations would influence the choices of aircraft, and it seems extremely unlikely that Me-109s and Hurricanes would serve together, nor Sabres and Mysteres. Perhaps D.XXIs or CR-42s, in 1940, followed by a melange of war-surplus, perhaps Spits. With no indigenous industry and a small budget, the jet age would find it equipped with MAP and NATO iron or French machines depending on the wind. Fouga Magisters or Folland Gnats, Alphajets or F-5s, always two-seaters so they could sell rides. They would never pay premium price to operate cutting edge units, and would have no say in the design process of anything, due to the size of the market. Not the sort of air force which stirs the blood.
 

Gunnarnz

I'm seeing a different sort of development.
Immediately following WW2 the Luxembourg Air Force (LAF) would be using whatever war-surplus they can pick up - perhaps Spitfires or Mustangs. This probably lasts until the late 1950s, when their piston-engined birds are getting well past their use-by date.
The Korean War has ushered in the jet age, and the Swiss Air Force is transitioning from Vampires to Venoms. Luxembourg manages to pick up six of the Vampires and six twin-seaters as well - the logic is that the single seaters are the real air combat force, but the twins (due to their extra crewman) have some advantages for tasks which demand a high pilot workload (as well as acting as trainers). For a time it looks like the LAF may be able to maintain an existence as a small, but fully capable, air force. There is even talk of acquiring some Canberra bombers as long-range strike aircraft, and the pair of DHC-3 transports acquired after WW2 have recently been refitted with modern navigation systems and engines.
Unfortunately, as the 1960's wear on and the Vietnam war develops, the future begins to look bleaker. The price of modern combat aircraft is rocketing skywards and their demands in terms of supporting infrastructure are also increasing dramatically. One politician on the verge of obscurity attempts to gain attention by pointedly asking what the LAF's air combat force can achieve without the support of the vastly larger and more capable air forces of France, Germany and Belgium; and suggests that calling it a national air transport service is more in keeping with its role. While no-one pays a great deal of public attention to this, there are serious discussions in the Military Center at Diekirch about the role of the LAF in the future.
The Luxembourg Army is in a period of transition at the time, and this is just another symptom. The Groupe Tactique Regimentaire was recently disbanded and the 1st Artillery Battalion placed at NATO's disposal; clearly the defence of Luxembourg rests on a successful NATO. Equally clearly, however, Luxembourg cannot afford either the manpower (there are already rumours that conscription will be abandoned soon) or expenditure of anything above battalion size. While the LAF only operates a dozen combat aircraft, they are quickly becoming obsolescent and they require a significant fraction of the defence budget to keep operating. The debate continues without much in the way of progress until 1967, when conscription is abolished and the 1st Infantry Battalion is established. The Battalion is noteworthy in that it has a large proportion of specialist troops, particularly reconnaissance and anti-tank elements. This points at a future role for the LAF as a similarly "niche" force, forgoing the archetypal missions (which their neighbours can handle for NATO far better anyway) in favour of jobs where a small number of specialists can make a significant contribution.
Throughout the early 1970's a politely worded but nonetheless intense argument rages in Luxembourgs defence community - the LAF sees the air combat role as central to its existence, and is unwilling to give it up. Others, mainly concerned about the state of the treasury, point out the expense of maintaining a capability which is obsolete and so small as to be irrelevant if it were to be used as intended. The tipping point comes in 1974, when the Swiss begin phasing out the last of their Vampires. This will make the LAF the last operators of the type, and it is obvious it will no longer be practical to continue with the Vampire as the LAF's main combat aircraft.
At the same time, however, the lessons of Vietnam are starting to percolate through the LAF. One item in particular catches their attention - the conversion of the PC-6 STOL transport to a gunship and counter-insurgency aircraft, the AU-23. This fits in with a notion that has been gaining credibility for some time, that of the Luxembourg army as a whole specialising in reconnaissance duties. Reconnaissance specialists need to operate either at or beyond the front line in order to be effective, but getting them there - and supplying them once in place - is difficult. A small group of expertly trained pilots could make all the difference in such circumstances, and now it seems that there is the realistic prospect of attack missions in support of such operations.
With a certain amount of reluctance, the LAF accepts this change in focus. The DHC-3's are replaced by a pair of DHC-6's, and eight PC-6's are purchased - four of them equipped with the necessary modification kits for conversion to the AU-23 standard. It does not take long for their pilots to realise that while they may no longer have fighter jets to play with, there is still more than enough adrenaline to go around. Flying at low level - sometimes below the treetops - the LAF begins to develop a reputation as daring short-field flyers, able to deliver and retrieve almost anything from almost anywhere. The AU-23 also gains a new lease on life in their capable hands; the recon troops on the ground quickly learn to call them in as close air support. Their strikes are sudden and devastating since their low approach makes them extremely hard to defend against. When night vision gear starts to become practical in the 1980s the LAF are enthusiastic adopters of it to assist their night-flying.
As part of the AMF (Allied Mobile Force) the Luxembourg army and LAF exercise regularly with their NATO counterparts. Jobs other nations would do with a helicopter are regularly performed by the daredevils of the LAF in their STOL aircraft, and even experienced NATO soldiers return from their missions with tall tales of the impossible landing spots the LAF uses quite casually. The story goes around that if you need a recon team extracted, just spread your handkerchief on the ground and wait - an LAF PC-6 will land on it to pick them up, and take off again in the unused space. Supply convoy commanders also learn harsh lessons about the importance of maintaining camouflage and light discipline; a raiding pair of AU-23's can appear out of the darkness without warning, and vanish again just as quickly.
By the early 1990s the LAF has made a profession out of this sort of precise low-level operations, and are NATO's acknowledged experts in the field. Their reputation as fly-anywhere, do-anything pilots attracts attention from around the world, and real adrenaline junkies can book a seat on one of their training flights. Not graduates of Top Gun, but still the sort of air force which stirs the blood.
 

Just Leo

Found a picture of a Lux AF PC-9 intercepting a brace of errant Sukhois.

Advertising on military aircraft will become a new technique in off-setting military spending.

UPC9.png
 

Gunnarnz

Just Leo said:
Could you be referring to the DC3, not DHC-3, as a post-war pick-up?

The USAF was less enamoured with the PC-6 gunship, and a COIN role seems less than a prime requirement.
Click to expand...

Yes, I got mixed up. I meant the DC-3, sorry.

As for the COIN role, you're right that it's not a prime requirement (or in fact any requirement at all). And the USAF didn't think much of the gunship variant, primarily because of it's vulnerability it seems. But it does show that the PC-6 can carry a moderate quantity of air to ground ordnance to support the recon teams with and provide fire support for extractions. I don't imagine they'd be as heavily loaded as the AU-23 was in USAF service, so the performance may be a little better.
To be honest this is the sort of job that would usually be done by helicopters and helicopter gunships, but the requirement seemed to be for fixed-wing aircraft and I just can't justify fast jets.
 
Petike

Petike

That up there is a fine and exhausting analysis and I like it very much.

But I never said Luxembourg was to end up in NATO. They're neutral in the TL.
 

von hitchofen

Banned
Just Leo said:
Political affiliations would influence the choices of aircraft, and it seems extremely unlikely that Me-109s and Hurricanes would serve together,.
Click to expand...

109s and Hurricanes were used alongside each other with the Yugoslav Air Force

and Spitfires and FW190s by the Turkish AF during WW2 - so it's not that bizarre - the French also operated a mix of LW, Japanese and Allied designs...

I think if the LAF were to operate fast jets, a squadron of 2nd-hand Hawker Hunters would be cheap to keep, and could be flown by reservist pilots - as in Switzerland

the LAF may recieve numbers of these from its NATO neighbours to augment/replace them

fiatg-91.jpg


the oft-overlooked G-91
 

LegionoftheUnitedStates

Petike said:
As with my older thread concerning a greater Icelandic standing military, I want to talk about the possibilities of a far earlier air force tradition in the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg's military history. A tradition that leads to the existence of a proper (if small) permanent air force for the country, instead of the OTL babysitting of NATO AEW planes. A post-WWII POD is sufficient enough, but you can go as far as WWI and the interwar years to establish the tradition.

Mostly, I don't want to talk purely about plausibility issues and political ramifications (WWII and the Nazis grinning at Luxembourg, etc.), but I also want to explore which aircraft models would suit such an air force over the course of several decades. Some of the conditions of this challenge:
1.) In addition to trainers, transports and helicopters, these aircraft should always include at least one squadron of lighter, inexpensive fighters.
2.) The aircraft purchased should make tactical, economic and diplomatic/political sence. No stealth fighters or other overblown crap, but also no "lulz, they'll only have Cessnas and paper airplanes" posts.
3.) In addition to the international airport in Luxembourg, which will also house a smaller airbase, there will be a single, specialized, main airbase elsewhere in the country. (Preferrably in one of the more lowland regions.)

To clear things up a bit, I'll give you some minor leeway when it comes to the butterfly effect: You do not need to make up completely new plane models and their ATL production histories. We'll assume Luxembourg's ripples are too small to affect the OTL aviation industry in any meaningful way. So, even if you'll choose an interwar POD, European countries are still going to be flying Typhoons in the 90s and present, as in OTL.

So, what machines shall carry this proud roundel ? ;)
Click to expand...


It's actually fairly simple for the Grand Duchy to have an air force. All they need to do, after either world war, is do decide to follow the Swiss or Israeli model for defence. They decide to build a larger militia based army with the active batallion forming the cadre for a renforced brigade on mobilization.

The air force portion would be attack helicopters and dual role fighters like an F-16 or ground attack like an A-10. No need for much in the way of airlift . But they could field a squadron of jets, a squadron of helocopters, and a catch all support squadron with a transport or two, non-combat helos, Grand Duke's Flight, etc.

Paying for all this is another matter...
 
Petike

Petike

LegionoftheUnitedStates said:
It's actually fairly simple for the Grand Duchy to have an air force. All they need to do, after either world war, is do decide to follow the Swiss or Israeli model for defence. They decide to build a larger militia based army with the active batallion forming the cadre for a renforced brigade on mobilization.
Click to expand...

That is exactly what I'm aiming for. And not just with Luxembourg, but several of the small countries from the TL.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Top